Returned parcel delivered to neighbour, they sold contents on ebay. Legal case and evidence?

Undervalued

Okell said:

Skypist said:

Thanks for all your input guys. As far as your presumptions with the courier…you’re correct. I’ve sent so many rackets with this courier and never had a problem, and didn’t take out extra insurance (actually customer decided not to, but it didn’t even leave Uk to get to him!)...

@DullGreyGuy didn't ask if you'd taken out extra insurance - they asked whether you had declared the value correctly.

If you read all of the thread linked to by @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head you will see that it isn't necessarily that easy for the courier to avoid liability so long as they knew the value of the item.  It may not be necessary for you to take out extra insurance

That point has been debated on here nearly as much as delivery to the personal possession of the recipient!

So, if the Tower of London decide to spend twenty quid to send the Imperial State Crown by DPD (say) to a jeweller's for repair, and DPD leave it on the wrong doorstep they are liable for tens of millions of pounds?  Despite the fact they didn't know what was in the box!

In practice they generally do seem able to limit compensation for lost packages to published fairly minimal amounts unless the customer has opted for a higher level of "cover" (which technically isn't insurance). Again I am not aware of this being tested in a high enough court to set a legally binding precedent.

So expect a battle claiming £185 for a lost item that was sent by a service that was "covered" for £20. Particularly when you have already accepted the lower figure presumably in full and final settlement.

DullGreyGuy

Undervalued said:
Despite the fact they didn't know what was in the box!

DPD will know what's in the box and its value, as per these input boxes on their website when booking a courier:



Interestingly when you have typed in £500,000 and add another 0 to get to £5,000,000 the field goes red and you cannot book it. Seems their website allows you to send something up to £1,000,000 as it stops once you get to £1,000,001

So clearly their website has rules built in to not allow things over £1m being sent which shows not only do they know what they are carrying and how much its worth but they've gone to the effort of ensuring it has rules to not exceed their limit. 

Undervalued

DullGreyGuy said:

Undervalued said:
Despite the fact they didn't know what was in the box!

DPD will know what's in the box and its value, as per these input boxes on their website when booking a courier:



Interestingly when you have typed in £500,000 and add another 0 to get to £5,000,000 the field goes red and you cannot book it. Seems their website allows you to send something up to £1,000,000 as it stops once you get to £1,000,001

So clearly their website has rules built in to not allow things over £1m being sent which shows not only do they know what they are carrying and how much its worth but they've gone to the effort of ensuring it has rules to not exceed their limit. 

Exactly, but I think you get the point I was making!

Declare it as a sparkly hat worth £20 then try and claim its true value when DPD lose it!!

Assuming the courier the OP used has a similar booking in procedure he presumably didn't declare the Badminton Racquet's full value of £185 or had to agree to some other disclaimer?

Exodi

Agree with all the objective opinions in this thread but I don't know why but this has caused an irrational anger within me.

I really hate that 'the police don't have time to deal with that' is so commonly used as a (valid) counter. That someone can just plainly steal their neighbours possessions, with clear evidence of the fact, and the police may likely still do nothing.

This is something I would be willing to pay more tax for.

Please update us with how the conversations with the police/neighbours go.

Hoenir

Undervalued said:

In practice they generally do seem able to limit compensation for lost packages to published fairly minimal amounts unless the customer has opted for a higher level of "cover" (which technically isn't insurance). Again I am not aware of this being tested in a high enough court to set a legally binding precedent.

No different to the Post Office. As a business transaction the cost of shipping is normally passed to the purchaser. If this was adopted.  Then no issues would ever arise. Claims would be settled in full. You live and learn from experience. Anybody that's traded on Ebay over the years. Can tell you there's no shortage of petty criminals looking to exploit the slightest advantage. Such is human nature. 

DullGreyGuy

Undervalued said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Undervalued said:
Despite the fact they didn't know what was in the box!

DPD will know what's in the box and its value, as per these input boxes on their website when booking a courier:



Interestingly when you have typed in £500,000 and add another 0 to get to £5,000,000 the field goes red and you cannot book it. Seems their website allows you to send something up to £1,000,000 as it stops once you get to £1,000,001

So clearly their website has rules built in to not allow things over £1m being sent which shows not only do they know what they are carrying and how much its worth but they've gone to the effort of ensuring it has rules to not exceed their limit. 

Exactly, but I think you get the point I was making!

Declare it as a sparkly hat worth £20 then try and claim its true value when DPD lose it!!

Assuming the courier the OP used has a similar booking in procedure he presumably didn't declare the Badminton Racquet's full value of £185 or had to agree to some other disclaimer?

With DPD put anything up to £50 it tells you that you are covered. Between £50 and £5,000 they say you can insurer it for £X. For over £5k and up to £1m it says you can insurer it for the value of £5k. Over £1m it won't allow you to proceed. 

The OP never answered my question of what value they declared it for, they simply said they didnt buy the extra insurance on it. So if like DPD website they put the correct value then it would have been covered for £50 by the insurance. 

If you read the MSE website however there is an argument that their duty of care makes the website statement irrelevant and they cannot discharge it by saying you didnt buy insurance. I know I disagree with a fair amount MSE put on their website as over simplified etc but personally on the fence on this one.

user1977

Exodi said:

Agree with all the objective opinions in this thread but I don't know why but this has caused an irrational anger within me.

I really hate that 'the police don't have time to deal with that' is so commonly used as a (valid) counter. That someone can just plainly steal their neighbours possessions, with clear evidence of the fact, and the police may likely still do nothing.

This is something I would be willing to pay more tax for.

Bear in mind that it isn't merely "the police" who require more resources, but also the CPS, the courts, Legal Aid for the defence, prisons, probation service, etc. All falling apart at the seams.

Undervalued

DullGreyGuy said:

Undervalued said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Undervalued said:
Despite the fact they didn't know what was in the box!

DPD will know what's in the box and its value, as per these input boxes on their website when booking a courier:



Interestingly when you have typed in £500,000 and add another 0 to get to £5,000,000 the field goes red and you cannot book it. Seems their website allows you to send something up to £1,000,000 as it stops once you get to £1,000,001

So clearly their website has rules built in to not allow things over £1m being sent which shows not only do they know what they are carrying and how much its worth but they've gone to the effort of ensuring it has rules to not exceed their limit. 

Exactly, but I think you get the point I was making!

Declare it as a sparkly hat worth £20 then try and claim its true value when DPD lose it!!

Assuming the courier the OP used has a similar booking in procedure he presumably didn't declare the Badminton Racquet's full value of £185 or had to agree to some other disclaimer?

With DPD put anything up to £50 it tells you that you are covered. Between £50 and £5,000 they say you can insurer it for £X. For over £5k and up to £1m it says you can insurer it for the value of £5k. Over £1m it won't allow you to proceed. 

The OP never answered my question of what value they declared it for, they simply said they didnt buy the extra insurance on it. So if like DPD website they put the correct value then it would have been covered for £50 by the insurance. 

If you read the MSE website however there is an argument that their duty of care makes the website statement irrelevant and they cannot discharge it by saying you didnt buy insurance. I know I disagree with a fair amount MSE put on their website as over simplified etc but personally on the fence on this one.

Indeed.

The OP has knowingly sent an item worth £185 on a service that only includes far less cover (say £50). He presumably save a pound or two but chose to take a gamble.

Obviously that doesn't give his neighbour the right to steal it (by finding) if that is proved, so he has a claim against his neighbour for the whole £185 and if he gets it would owe the courier a refund of what they have paid out, which I assume they would waive.

The courier has been negligent but the neighbour has seemingly been criminal.

Skypist

Okell said:

Skypist said:

Thanks for all your input guys. As far as your presumptions with the courier…you’re correct. I’ve sent so many rackets with this courier and never had a problem, and didn’t take out extra insurance (actually customer decided not to, but it didn’t even leave Uk to get to him!)...

@DullGreyGuy didn't ask if you'd taken out extra insurance - they asked whether you had declared the value correctly.

If you read all of the thread linked to by @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head you will see that it isn't necessarily that easy for the courier to avoid liability so long as they knew the value of the item.  It may not be necessary for you to take out extra insurance

Thanks both, your question is clear to me now.  Yes I did declare the full value of the item when booking the courier, but I don't have a copy of this...it would be on their system.  I'll check the link fully.  It could be a breakthrough if they have to admit a lack of duty of care to the full value of the item.

As I was half expecting, the police have come back to me saying they need more evidence...matching serial numbers, more proof of ownership, CCTV.  I can see this might be leading down a dead end unfortunately, despite all the good "sufficient" evidence I've compiled.  Therefore, I'll need to explore alternatives out of principle.  The thief is the son of the campsite owner (glamping, canoe rental type of business).  He runs the canoeing part.  I'm itching to confront him by telephoning stating my proof, just in case he makes the decision to repay me.

Hoenir

If you need restitution file a County Court claim against him for your incurred losses. No certainty of outcome and may simply be further money down the drain.