How do insure car on pcp ownership question

motorguy

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

flashg67 said:

IMHO it's 'me' as the owner - you're not leasing it as you will eventually own the car. That's what I've always put anyway and wasn't queried when I had a (non fault) claim

Tends to get you marked as a fraudster on a total loss claim when they do the full checks.

A couple of months ago there was someone on here who made a false declaration on the owner and had their policy voided, had no cover for their own vehicle damage and was having to personally pay the third party's claim.

What was the false declaration? I seem to remember this one and I'm certain it wasn't ownership.

Back in 2018 I had a car stolen on finance.
I only had it a few months and I have always marked myself down as owner when it comes to insurance if I had a car on finance, either HP or PCP.

When it came to settlement they just asked if it was on finance, when I said yes they asked me to get a settlement figure and email it to them.

That was it, they settled the finance and paid me the difference the next day.


I have copied this from a well know agitator site.

"What's the difference between owner and registered keeper?

If your name is on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (often called the logbook), you're the registered keeper.

If you bought the car, or received it as a gift, you will own it too.

Sometimes a company (such as a leasing company) or another person might own a car and be the registered keeper of the car, so please make sure you check your V5C".

To me it reads if it's leased/a company car and someone else's name is on the V5C, you aren't the owner.

If it was a gift or you bought the car, either cash or on finance and your name is on the V5C, then you are the owner as far as the insurance companies concerned.

Yes if it's on finance the finance company have legal ownership rights over it, but you have agreed to buy it by signing a contract that states that, so it's your purchase not a lease.

I wonder what all those with mortgages put down on their home insurance, would home owner be incorrect?

If you are in any doubt at all, contact the insurance company.

The quoted poster had said that despite the car being owned by the finance company they just declared it as being owned by them because it was going to be eventually. Obviously when total losing the vehicle a standard step is to look for secured finance at which point it becomes obvious it's not the posters car. 

The bold text is explaining the difference between owner and keeper, insurers ask for both as separate questions and both need to be accurate. 

If I am 100% honest, the other poster cannot remember if it was owner, keeper or both but it was all a muddle with the person claiming to have "forgotten" which option they went to in the end when considering if to get the vehicle personally or via their company. 

Again - non issue.

A well trodden path and the insurance company will settle any finance first.

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

WellKnownSid

motorguy said:

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

With something like 90% of new cars bought on PCP, I would put money on 'who owns the car' being answered as 'leased - private' by nowhere near that number...

DullGreyGuy

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

flashg67 said:

IMHO it's 'me' as the owner - you're not leasing it as you will eventually own the car. That's what I've always put anyway and wasn't queried when I had a (non fault) claim

Tends to get you marked as a fraudster on a total loss claim when they do the full checks.

A couple of months ago there was someone on here who made a false declaration on the owner and had their policy voided, had no cover for their own vehicle damage and was having to personally pay the third party's claim.

What was the false declaration? I seem to remember this one and I'm certain it wasn't ownership.

Back in 2018 I had a car stolen on finance.
I only had it a few months and I have always marked myself down as owner when it comes to insurance if I had a car on finance, either HP or PCP.

When it came to settlement they just asked if it was on finance, when I said yes they asked me to get a settlement figure and email it to them.

That was it, they settled the finance and paid me the difference the next day.


I have copied this from a well know agitator site.

"What's the difference between owner and registered keeper?

If your name is on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (often called the logbook), you're the registered keeper.

If you bought the car, or received it as a gift, you will own it too.

Sometimes a company (such as a leasing company) or another person might own a car and be the registered keeper of the car, so please make sure you check your V5C".

To me it reads if it's leased/a company car and someone else's name is on the V5C, you aren't the owner.

If it was a gift or you bought the car, either cash or on finance and your name is on the V5C, then you are the owner as far as the insurance companies concerned.

Yes if it's on finance the finance company have legal ownership rights over it, but you have agreed to buy it by signing a contract that states that, so it's your purchase not a lease.

I wonder what all those with mortgages put down on their home insurance, would home owner be incorrect?

If you are in any doubt at all, contact the insurance company.

The quoted poster had said that despite the car being owned by the finance company they just declared it as being owned by them because it was going to be eventually. Obviously when total losing the vehicle a standard step is to look for secured finance at which point it becomes obvious it's not the posters car. 

The bold text is explaining the difference between owner and keeper, insurers ask for both as separate questions and both need to be accurate. 

If I am 100% honest, the other poster cannot remember if it was owner, keeper or both but it was all a muddle with the person claiming to have "forgotten" which option they went to in the end when considering if to get the vehicle personally or via their company. 

Again - non issue.

A well trodden path and the insurance company will settle any finance first.

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN1780460.pdf

The ombudsman disagrees... ok in this case the daughter rather than a finance company is the legal owner but the policy was void for misrepresentation when the policyholder stated he was the owner. He has been loaded to counter fraud databases saying he lies on applications. 

WellKnownSid

DullGreyGuy said:

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

flashg67 said:

IMHO it's 'me' as the owner - you're not leasing it as you will eventually own the car. That's what I've always put anyway and wasn't queried when I had a (non fault) claim

Tends to get you marked as a fraudster on a total loss claim when they do the full checks.

A couple of months ago there was someone on here who made a false declaration on the owner and had their policy voided, had no cover for their own vehicle damage and was having to personally pay the third party's claim.

What was the false declaration? I seem to remember this one and I'm certain it wasn't ownership.

Back in 2018 I had a car stolen on finance.
I only had it a few months and I have always marked myself down as owner when it comes to insurance if I had a car on finance, either HP or PCP.

When it came to settlement they just asked if it was on finance, when I said yes they asked me to get a settlement figure and email it to them.

That was it, they settled the finance and paid me the difference the next day.


I have copied this from a well know agitator site.

"What's the difference between owner and registered keeper?

If your name is on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (often called the logbook), you're the registered keeper.

If you bought the car, or received it as a gift, you will own it too.

Sometimes a company (such as a leasing company) or another person might own a car and be the registered keeper of the car, so please make sure you check your V5C".

To me it reads if it's leased/a company car and someone else's name is on the V5C, you aren't the owner.

If it was a gift or you bought the car, either cash or on finance and your name is on the V5C, then you are the owner as far as the insurance companies concerned.

Yes if it's on finance the finance company have legal ownership rights over it, but you have agreed to buy it by signing a contract that states that, so it's your purchase not a lease.

I wonder what all those with mortgages put down on their home insurance, would home owner be incorrect?

If you are in any doubt at all, contact the insurance company.

The quoted poster had said that despite the car being owned by the finance company they just declared it as being owned by them because it was going to be eventually. Obviously when total losing the vehicle a standard step is to look for secured finance at which point it becomes obvious it's not the posters car. 

The bold text is explaining the difference between owner and keeper, insurers ask for both as separate questions and both need to be accurate. 

If I am 100% honest, the other poster cannot remember if it was owner, keeper or both but it was all a muddle with the person claiming to have "forgotten" which option they went to in the end when considering if to get the vehicle personally or via their company. 

Again - non issue.

A well trodden path and the insurance company will settle any finance first.

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN1780460.pdf

The ombudsman disagrees... ok in this case the daughter rather than a finance company is the legal owner but the policy was void for misrepresentation when the policyholder stated he was the owner. He has been loaded to counter fraud databases saying he lies on applications. 

It still wasn't clear cut.  The decision changed and seems to have been finally swayed by multiple misrepresentations and - the key point - an insurer who would not have insured the proposer if it had known the true ownership.  This was similar to a recent case I saw where it was the proposer's limited company that owned the car - the insurer would not have insured that case either.

I'm less convinced this is true for cars on PCP / finance.  Pretty much all new and most secondhand privately 'owned' cars meet that criteria and I reckon most drivers would consider themselves owners - whereas it's pretty damn clear to someone that they are NOT owner in the circumstance that the owner is actually their wife / daughter / ltd company.

motorguy

DullGreyGuy said:

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

flashg67 said:

IMHO it's 'me' as the owner - you're not leasing it as you will eventually own the car. That's what I've always put anyway and wasn't queried when I had a (non fault) claim

Tends to get you marked as a fraudster on a total loss claim when they do the full checks.

A couple of months ago there was someone on here who made a false declaration on the owner and had their policy voided, had no cover for their own vehicle damage and was having to personally pay the third party's claim.

What was the false declaration? I seem to remember this one and I'm certain it wasn't ownership.

Back in 2018 I had a car stolen on finance.
I only had it a few months and I have always marked myself down as owner when it comes to insurance if I had a car on finance, either HP or PCP.

When it came to settlement they just asked if it was on finance, when I said yes they asked me to get a settlement figure and email it to them.

That was it, they settled the finance and paid me the difference the next day.


I have copied this from a well know agitator site.

"What's the difference between owner and registered keeper?

If your name is on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (often called the logbook), you're the registered keeper.

If you bought the car, or received it as a gift, you will own it too.

Sometimes a company (such as a leasing company) or another person might own a car and be the registered keeper of the car, so please make sure you check your V5C".

To me it reads if it's leased/a company car and someone else's name is on the V5C, you aren't the owner.

If it was a gift or you bought the car, either cash or on finance and your name is on the V5C, then you are the owner as far as the insurance companies concerned.

Yes if it's on finance the finance company have legal ownership rights over it, but you have agreed to buy it by signing a contract that states that, so it's your purchase not a lease.

I wonder what all those with mortgages put down on their home insurance, would home owner be incorrect?

If you are in any doubt at all, contact the insurance company.

The quoted poster had said that despite the car being owned by the finance company they just declared it as being owned by them because it was going to be eventually. Obviously when total losing the vehicle a standard step is to look for secured finance at which point it becomes obvious it's not the posters car. 

The bold text is explaining the difference between owner and keeper, insurers ask for both as separate questions and both need to be accurate. 

If I am 100% honest, the other poster cannot remember if it was owner, keeper or both but it was all a muddle with the person claiming to have "forgotten" which option they went to in the end when considering if to get the vehicle personally or via their company. 

Again - non issue.

A well trodden path and the insurance company will settle any finance first.

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN1780460.pdf

The ombudsman disagrees... ok in this case the daughter rather than a finance company is the legal owner but the policy was void for misrepresentation when the policyholder stated he was the owner. He has been loaded to counter fraud databases saying he lies on applications. 

Oh now come on - thats not even remotely the same.  Thats a case of the father insured it, but the daughter owned it.

Almost certainly done to get a cheaper insurance premium for his daughter.

In fact the last sentence verifies what i said "It provided evidence that it would not have offered cover to Mr C for a vehicle not owned by or registered to him and as such"

"Not owned by or registered to him as such".

You dont have to own it to get insurance, it can be registered to you.

With PCP the car is registered to you

Goudy

I'll go back to an earlier comment.
When you fill all these details in for a car insurance quote it also asks you if you are a home owner.
How many click no because they have a mortgage? No one I bet.

If one considers a car on PCP or HP as leased, then surely you don't own a home with a mortgage on it.

So this would suggest clicking home owner if you have a mortgage might also be considered making a false representation to the insurance company. 

But this isn't the case with either, both are secured credit which means the lenders have a legal lien on the assets, not full legal ownership.
This means the lender has the rights to retain possession of someone else's property pending discharge of debt. 

Note, "someone else's property", ie your property.

Your house with a mortgage and your car on HP/PCP is legally yours, just the lender has a legal right to retain possession under certain conditions, ie until the debt is paid off.

Neither bank or finance company could sell either from under you (unless you defaulted on the loan).
They couldn't decide to fit an avocado bathroom suite or paint flames down the side of the car as they are not the legal owners. You are.

DullGreyGuy

Goudy said:

When you fill all these details in for a car insurance quote it also asks you if you are a home owner.
How many click no because they have a mortgage? No one I bet.

Because you do own your home if you have a mortgage on it, the mortgage company just has a charge on the property. Shiah mortgages can be different because of their rent/gift setup that some use to get around the haram issue of interest

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

flashg67 said:

IMHO it's 'me' as the owner - you're not leasing it as you will eventually own the car. That's what I've always put anyway and wasn't queried when I had a (non fault) claim

Tends to get you marked as a fraudster on a total loss claim when they do the full checks.

A couple of months ago there was someone on here who made a false declaration on the owner and had their policy voided, had no cover for their own vehicle damage and was having to personally pay the third party's claim.

What was the false declaration? I seem to remember this one and I'm certain it wasn't ownership.

Back in 2018 I had a car stolen on finance.
I only had it a few months and I have always marked myself down as owner when it comes to insurance if I had a car on finance, either HP or PCP.

When it came to settlement they just asked if it was on finance, when I said yes they asked me to get a settlement figure and email it to them.

That was it, they settled the finance and paid me the difference the next day.


I have copied this from a well know agitator site.

"What's the difference between owner and registered keeper?

If your name is on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (often called the logbook), you're the registered keeper.

If you bought the car, or received it as a gift, you will own it too.

Sometimes a company (such as a leasing company) or another person might own a car and be the registered keeper of the car, so please make sure you check your V5C".

To me it reads if it's leased/a company car and someone else's name is on the V5C, you aren't the owner.

If it was a gift or you bought the car, either cash or on finance and your name is on the V5C, then you are the owner as far as the insurance companies concerned.

Yes if it's on finance the finance company have legal ownership rights over it, but you have agreed to buy it by signing a contract that states that, so it's your purchase not a lease.

I wonder what all those with mortgages put down on their home insurance, would home owner be incorrect?

If you are in any doubt at all, contact the insurance company.

The quoted poster had said that despite the car being owned by the finance company they just declared it as being owned by them because it was going to be eventually. Obviously when total losing the vehicle a standard step is to look for secured finance at which point it becomes obvious it's not the posters car. 

The bold text is explaining the difference between owner and keeper, insurers ask for both as separate questions and both need to be accurate. 

If I am 100% honest, the other poster cannot remember if it was owner, keeper or both but it was all a muddle with the person claiming to have "forgotten" which option they went to in the end when considering if to get the vehicle personally or via their company. 

Again - non issue.

A well trodden path and the insurance company will settle any finance first.

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN1780460.pdf

The ombudsman disagrees... ok in this case the daughter rather than a finance company is the legal owner but the policy was void for misrepresentation when the policyholder stated he was the owner. He has been loaded to counter fraud databases saying he lies on applications. 

Oh now come on - thats not even remotely the same.  Thats a case of the father insured it, but the daughter owned it.

Almost certainly done to get a cheaper insurance premium for his daughter.

In fact the last sentence verifies what i said "It provided evidence that it would not have offered cover to Mr C for a vehicle not owned by or registered to him and as such"

"Not owned by or registered to him as such".

You dont have to own it to get insurance, it can be registered to you.

With PCP the car is registered to you

Hows it not remotely the same that A claimed to own it and in reality B owned it and had A declared B owned it the insurer wouldn't have covered it?

There is nothing in the decision that says the daughter ever drove the car, you are assuming it is fronting but you cannot make that inference. There are plenty of other cases around the topic of fronting and they explicitly call out fronting in them

Goudy

And the difference between a charge on a property with a mortgage and a charge on a car on HP/PCP is what?

You own both, just haven't paid for them in full yet.

Ectophile

Goudy said:

And the difference between a charge on a property with a mortgage and a charge on a car on HP/PCP is what?

You own both, just haven't paid for them in full yet.

With a mortgaged house, you are recorded as the owner of the house at the Land Registry from the completion date.  the mortgage company records a charge on the house, so you can't sell it without paying off that charge.

With a car on finance, the finance company owns the car until you make the final payment.  PCP is a version of Hire Purchase.

motorguy

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

When you fill all these details in for a car insurance quote it also asks you if you are a home owner.
How many click no because they have a mortgage? No one I bet.

Because you do own your home if you have a mortgage on it, the mortgage company just has a charge on the property. Shiah mortgages can be different because of their rent/gift setup that some use to get around the haram issue of interest

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

motorguy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Goudy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

flashg67 said:

IMHO it's 'me' as the owner - you're not leasing it as you will eventually own the car. That's what I've always put anyway and wasn't queried when I had a (non fault) claim

Tends to get you marked as a fraudster on a total loss claim when they do the full checks.

A couple of months ago there was someone on here who made a false declaration on the owner and had their policy voided, had no cover for their own vehicle damage and was having to personally pay the third party's claim.

What was the false declaration? I seem to remember this one and I'm certain it wasn't ownership.

Back in 2018 I had a car stolen on finance.
I only had it a few months and I have always marked myself down as owner when it comes to insurance if I had a car on finance, either HP or PCP.

When it came to settlement they just asked if it was on finance, when I said yes they asked me to get a settlement figure and email it to them.

That was it, they settled the finance and paid me the difference the next day.


I have copied this from a well know agitator site.

"What's the difference between owner and registered keeper?

If your name is on the V5C vehicle registration certificate (often called the logbook), you're the registered keeper.

If you bought the car, or received it as a gift, you will own it too.

Sometimes a company (such as a leasing company) or another person might own a car and be the registered keeper of the car, so please make sure you check your V5C".

To me it reads if it's leased/a company car and someone else's name is on the V5C, you aren't the owner.

If it was a gift or you bought the car, either cash or on finance and your name is on the V5C, then you are the owner as far as the insurance companies concerned.

Yes if it's on finance the finance company have legal ownership rights over it, but you have agreed to buy it by signing a contract that states that, so it's your purchase not a lease.

I wonder what all those with mortgages put down on their home insurance, would home owner be incorrect?

If you are in any doubt at all, contact the insurance company.

The quoted poster had said that despite the car being owned by the finance company they just declared it as being owned by them because it was going to be eventually. Obviously when total losing the vehicle a standard step is to look for secured finance at which point it becomes obvious it's not the posters car. 

The bold text is explaining the difference between owner and keeper, insurers ask for both as separate questions and both need to be accurate. 

If I am 100% honest, the other poster cannot remember if it was owner, keeper or both but it was all a muddle with the person claiming to have "forgotten" which option they went to in the end when considering if to get the vehicle personally or via their company. 

Again - non issue.

A well trodden path and the insurance company will settle any finance first.

No one will be burned at the stake / branded as a fraudster / have their insurance cancelled.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN1780460.pdf

The ombudsman disagrees... ok in this case the daughter rather than a finance company is the legal owner but the policy was void for misrepresentation when the policyholder stated he was the owner. He has been loaded to counter fraud databases saying he lies on applications. 

Oh now come on - thats not even remotely the same.  Thats a case of the father insured it, but the daughter owned it.

Almost certainly done to get a cheaper insurance premium for his daughter.

In fact the last sentence verifies what i said "It provided evidence that it would not have offered cover to Mr C for a vehicle not owned by or registered to him and as such"

"Not owned by or registered to him as such".

You dont have to own it to get insurance, it can be registered to you.

With PCP the car is registered to you

Hows it not remotely the same that A claimed to own it and in reality B owned it and had A declared B owned it the insurer wouldn't have covered it?

There is nothing in the decision that says the daughter ever drove the car, you are assuming it is fronting but you cannot make that inference. There are plenty of other cases around the topic of fronting and they explicitly call out fronting in them

It was insured in the fathers name but bought by the daughter, registered to the daughter, owned by the daughter.

Classic fronting.  

Having finance on a car is NOT the same thing as that scenario.

90% of all new cars are financed.  A big percentage of used cars too.

This is not a new thing, this will have come up (probably literally) a million times before.

The first thing the insurance company would do on a total loss claim would be HPI the car.  If theres finance outstanding they contact the finance company for a settlement figure.  

I remember 25 years ago my brother wrote off his car and even then the first thing the insurance company did was HPI it and they then rang my brother and said they'd pay out to the finance co and pay him the difference.  Car was taxed, insured, registered in his name, declared owned by him.

You're trying to make something out of nothing here.  This is not an issue.