Going abroad and UC

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

superM said:

I am working full time 30k a year and my wife is full time carer so she is exempted from job search. 

I guess claimant commitment will be to inform them of any change of circumstances which I do.  

Can I report holiday period online?  We don't have to go to job centre etc 

Thanks 

Yes you can just put a note in the online U/C journal... possibly for work coach (even if none is assigned given no work search requirements) as nothing specifically relevant as category I don't think.

The debate above has been had before here and likely will be had again. It's not clear what is best to do when intending holiday under a month for U/C... there's rule and there's practice but there's a reality claimants need to navigate that could involve some place between both especially if they're polar opposite as seems likely on this issue. My view is it is worth putting in journal as the journal is a great place to evidence intent and honesty. Whenever my partner has travelled abroad including for over a month being up front seemed a decent strategy although they insisted they be informed when she returned. But the thing about holidays is they can have unexpected events... everything from suffering illness to facing closed borders (like with Covid) and if you've been up front about intention it's easier I would say to then step in and justify/explain any changed plan and gain potential favour in ruling. I can't see any particular negative outcome for unnecessarily reporting a holiday... and comings and goings of Brits in and out of country are held by government anyway. 

At the end of the day a simple message in journal after flights (or equivalent) are booked is little effort... as is notifying of return. I always have in the back of my mind... openness and honesty when claiming benefits especially if there's contentious matter arise or assessments where integrity is important to value of evidence... has got to be a sensible strategy. When we advised U/C we would receive sale proceeds from my house and wanted those to be not considered as savings as we intended to buy another home to live in we found no friction or evidence requirements including when we asked for another 6 month extension... the decision letter even stated the statements in journal were consistent and realistic such that they could be relied on. And when my wife needed to urgently go abroad after her mother's death a decision maker completely unexpectedly (and not in line with the advice provided or protocol advised) stepped in and gave her a 2 month window to be abroad as she was about to head to the airport when normally you have to actually ask for a decision after entering the second month... no evidence was requested... but again I think being up front and honest was helpful as we reported her flights would mean less than a month abroad but realistically what she had to administratively deal with out there could take much longer and flight home changed to a later date (which ultimately it was).

A person is free to choose if or not to report a holiday (as long it fits in with there claimant comments), yes the person reporting it might well be more open, but it doesn't make them more honest.
Some people on here do report a trip, others don't, it certainly doesn't make the ones who do more honest than those who don't.

It gives the appearance of honesty....humans at the end of the day are psychological emotional creatures and that includes people administrating U/C or taking decisions on such even in the face of rules and protocols. Courts are a classic place to see deliverance of strategies of openness and honesty including by the dishonest and downright criminal getting good legal advice. I've given examples regarding U/C where I think favour was gained with being open and honest.. including going outside of protocol by a DM to award an extension to the standard 1 month overseas absence before the absence had even begun.

It's a no brainer to me.... giving them information another government department could provide at later date.. and satisfying any ambiguity between actual legislation and the way U/C staff operate administering a claim. It takes less than a couple of minutes to do and there will be cases where things go wrong giving a starting point to explain or justify rather than having to backtrack on events. It also cuts out the overzealous agent in the future asking why something wasn't declared... and having the same arguments you get here about the rules... we know most agents are borderline clueless and having to argue with them will be a pain avoidable. It's an argument avoidable here if people just accept the rules and operation by staff of U/C do not always match and at the end of the day we're here to give claimants helpful advice as well as accurate advice. At the end of the day people are well within their rights to walk home down dark alleys at night but explaining that to a mugger may be a debate won at high cost.

There's a reason they stick a lot of call centres in the north east of England...lol

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

superM said:

I am working full time 30k a year and my wife is full time carer so she is exempted from job search. 

I guess claimant commitment will be to inform them of any change of circumstances which I do.  

Can I report holiday period online?  We don't have to go to job centre etc 

Thanks 

Yes you can just put a note in the online U/C journal... possibly for work coach (even if none is assigned given no work search requirements) as nothing specifically relevant as category I don't think.

The debate above has been had before here and likely will be had again. It's not clear what is best to do when intending holiday under a month for U/C... there's rule and there's practice but there's a reality claimants need to navigate that could involve some place between both especially if they're polar opposite as seems likely on this issue. My view is it is worth putting in journal as the journal is a great place to evidence intent and honesty. Whenever my partner has travelled abroad including for over a month being up front seemed a decent strategy although they insisted they be informed when she returned. But the thing about holidays is they can have unexpected events... everything from suffering illness to facing closed borders (like with Covid) and if you've been up front about intention it's easier I would say to then step in and justify/explain any changed plan and gain potential favour in ruling. I can't see any particular negative outcome for unnecessarily reporting a holiday... and comings and goings of Brits in and out of country are held by government anyway. 

At the end of the day a simple message in journal after flights (or equivalent) are booked is little effort... as is notifying of return. I always have in the back of my mind... openness and honesty when claiming benefits especially if there's contentious matter arise or assessments where integrity is important to value of evidence... has got to be a sensible strategy. When we advised U/C we would receive sale proceeds from my house and wanted those to be not considered as savings as we intended to buy another home to live in we found no friction or evidence requirements including when we asked for another 6 month extension... the decision letter even stated the statements in journal were consistent and realistic such that they could be relied on. And when my wife needed to urgently go abroad after her mother's death a decision maker completely unexpectedly (and not in line with the advice provided or protocol advised) stepped in and gave her a 2 month window to be abroad as she was about to head to the airport when normally you have to actually ask for a decision after entering the second month... no evidence was requested... but again I think being up front and honest was helpful as we reported her flights would mean less than a month abroad but realistically what she had to administratively deal with out there could take much longer and flight home changed to a later date (which ultimately it was).

A person is free to choose if or not to report a holiday (as long it fits in with there claimant comments), yes the person reporting it might well be more open, but it doesn't make them more honest.
Some people on here do report a trip, others don't, it certainly doesn't make the ones who do more honest than those who don't.

It gives the appearance of honesty....humans at the end of the day are psychological emotional creatures and that includes people administrating U/C or taking decisions on such even in the face of rules and protocols. Courts are a classic place to see deliverance of strategies of openness and honesty including by the dishonest and downright criminal getting good legal advice. I've given examples regarding U/C where I think favour was gained with being open and honest.. including going outside of protocol by a DM to award an extension to the standard 1 month overseas absence before the absence had even begun.

It's a no brainer to me.... giving them information another government department could provide at later date.. and satisfying any ambiguity between actual legislation and the way U/C staff operate administering a claim. It takes less than a couple of minutes to do and there will be cases where things go wrong giving a starting point to explain or justify rather than having to backtrack on events. It also cuts out the overzealous agent in the future asking why something wasn't declared... and having the same arguments you get here about the rules... we know most agents are borderline clueless and having to argue with them will be a pain avoidable. It's an argument avoidable here if people just accept the rules and operation by staff of U/C do not always match and at the end of the day we're here to give claimants helpful advice as well as accurate advice. At the end of the day people are well within their rights to walk home down dark alleys at night but explaining that to a mugger may be a debate won at high cost.

There's a reason they stick a lot of call centres in the north east of England...lol

I have also seen on here that someone reported a holiday and they were asked for loads of info, proving when they left, when they returned etc. If they hadn't declared it very doubtful that they would had do have do it. Swings and roundabouts.

I agree there are overzealous agent, maybe seeing journal reports on holidays will set them off, who knows?
Maybe it is easier just to go along with reporting holidays as staff don't know the correct rules
There will be some that think benefit claimants should report all their movements that's why holidays should be notified.

Muttleythefrog

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

superM said:

I am working full time 30k a year and my wife is full time carer so she is exempted from job search. 

I guess claimant commitment will be to inform them of any change of circumstances which I do.  

Can I report holiday period online?  We don't have to go to job centre etc 

Thanks 

Yes you can just put a note in the online U/C journal... possibly for work coach (even if none is assigned given no work search requirements) as nothing specifically relevant as category I don't think.

The debate above has been had before here and likely will be had again. It's not clear what is best to do when intending holiday under a month for U/C... there's rule and there's practice but there's a reality claimants need to navigate that could involve some place between both especially if they're polar opposite as seems likely on this issue. My view is it is worth putting in journal as the journal is a great place to evidence intent and honesty. Whenever my partner has travelled abroad including for over a month being up front seemed a decent strategy although they insisted they be informed when she returned. But the thing about holidays is they can have unexpected events... everything from suffering illness to facing closed borders (like with Covid) and if you've been up front about intention it's easier I would say to then step in and justify/explain any changed plan and gain potential favour in ruling. I can't see any particular negative outcome for unnecessarily reporting a holiday... and comings and goings of Brits in and out of country are held by government anyway. 

At the end of the day a simple message in journal after flights (or equivalent) are booked is little effort... as is notifying of return. I always have in the back of my mind... openness and honesty when claiming benefits especially if there's contentious matter arise or assessments where integrity is important to value of evidence... has got to be a sensible strategy. When we advised U/C we would receive sale proceeds from my house and wanted those to be not considered as savings as we intended to buy another home to live in we found no friction or evidence requirements including when we asked for another 6 month extension... the decision letter even stated the statements in journal were consistent and realistic such that they could be relied on. And when my wife needed to urgently go abroad after her mother's death a decision maker completely unexpectedly (and not in line with the advice provided or protocol advised) stepped in and gave her a 2 month window to be abroad as she was about to head to the airport when normally you have to actually ask for a decision after entering the second month... no evidence was requested... but again I think being up front and honest was helpful as we reported her flights would mean less than a month abroad but realistically what she had to administratively deal with out there could take much longer and flight home changed to a later date (which ultimately it was).

A person is free to choose if or not to report a holiday (as long it fits in with there claimant comments), yes the person reporting it might well be more open, but it doesn't make them more honest.
Some people on here do report a trip, others don't, it certainly doesn't make the ones who do more honest than those who don't.

It gives the appearance of honesty....humans at the end of the day are psychological emotional creatures and that includes people administrating U/C or taking decisions on such even in the face of rules and protocols. Courts are a classic place to see deliverance of strategies of openness and honesty including by the dishonest and downright criminal getting good legal advice. I've given examples regarding U/C where I think favour was gained with being open and honest.. including going outside of protocol by a DM to award an extension to the standard 1 month overseas absence before the absence had even begun.

It's a no brainer to me.... giving them information another government department could provide at later date.. and satisfying any ambiguity between actual legislation and the way U/C staff operate administering a claim. It takes less than a couple of minutes to do and there will be cases where things go wrong giving a starting point to explain or justify rather than having to backtrack on events. It also cuts out the overzealous agent in the future asking why something wasn't declared... and having the same arguments you get here about the rules... we know most agents are borderline clueless and having to argue with them will be a pain avoidable. It's an argument avoidable here if people just accept the rules and operation by staff of U/C do not always match and at the end of the day we're here to give claimants helpful advice as well as accurate advice. At the end of the day people are well within their rights to walk home down dark alleys at night but explaining that to a mugger may be a debate won at high cost.

There's a reason they stick a lot of call centres in the north east of England...lol

I have also seen on here that someone reported a holiday and they were asked for loads of info, proving when they left, when they returned etc. If they hadn't declared it very doubtful that they would had do have do it. Swings and roundabouts.

I agree there are overzealous agent, maybe seeing journal reports on holidays will set them off, who knows?
Maybe it is easier just to go along with reporting holidays as staff don't know the correct rules
There will be some that think benefit claimants should report all their movements that's why holidays should be notified.

If it's the case I think you refer to (it may not be as it sounds a little different to my memory) yes they ended up interviewed after the benefit was stopped unexpectedly... most likely as there was concern they were not habitually resident due to what sounded like frequent and lengthy (but under a month) trips abroad (something that possibly  would make me think twice about reporting them in journal as opposed to one offs). On one hand you might be right... without them detailing each trip U/C may never have had the information to cause suspicion although I suspect shifts towards them having that info will occur over time eventually... it exists and the direction of travel is for more joined up databases for detecting potential fraud. But the other hand is they could say all holidays were declared in journal, nothing to hide, intent is to live here in the UK... and in the case the benefit was quickly restored.

I do agree a strategy of giving information on need to know basis (as I think you described in that thread) can be useful but I'd be reluctant to use it universally and certainly breaking with it saved me and my wife a lot of anxiety and practical problems late last year when we gave information to U/C we did not need to (at least not at the time we did give it).

HillStreetBlues

Muttleythefrog said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

superM said:

I am working full time 30k a year and my wife is full time carer so she is exempted from job search. 

I guess claimant commitment will be to inform them of any change of circumstances which I do.  

Can I report holiday period online?  We don't have to go to job centre etc 

Thanks 

Yes you can just put a note in the online U/C journal... possibly for work coach (even if none is assigned given no work search requirements) as nothing specifically relevant as category I don't think.

The debate above has been had before here and likely will be had again. It's not clear what is best to do when intending holiday under a month for U/C... there's rule and there's practice but there's a reality claimants need to navigate that could involve some place between both especially if they're polar opposite as seems likely on this issue. My view is it is worth putting in journal as the journal is a great place to evidence intent and honesty. Whenever my partner has travelled abroad including for over a month being up front seemed a decent strategy although they insisted they be informed when she returned. But the thing about holidays is they can have unexpected events... everything from suffering illness to facing closed borders (like with Covid) and if you've been up front about intention it's easier I would say to then step in and justify/explain any changed plan and gain potential favour in ruling. I can't see any particular negative outcome for unnecessarily reporting a holiday... and comings and goings of Brits in and out of country are held by government anyway. 

At the end of the day a simple message in journal after flights (or equivalent) are booked is little effort... as is notifying of return. I always have in the back of my mind... openness and honesty when claiming benefits especially if there's contentious matter arise or assessments where integrity is important to value of evidence... has got to be a sensible strategy. When we advised U/C we would receive sale proceeds from my house and wanted those to be not considered as savings as we intended to buy another home to live in we found no friction or evidence requirements including when we asked for another 6 month extension... the decision letter even stated the statements in journal were consistent and realistic such that they could be relied on. And when my wife needed to urgently go abroad after her mother's death a decision maker completely unexpectedly (and not in line with the advice provided or protocol advised) stepped in and gave her a 2 month window to be abroad as she was about to head to the airport when normally you have to actually ask for a decision after entering the second month... no evidence was requested... but again I think being up front and honest was helpful as we reported her flights would mean less than a month abroad but realistically what she had to administratively deal with out there could take much longer and flight home changed to a later date (which ultimately it was).

A person is free to choose if or not to report a holiday (as long it fits in with there claimant comments), yes the person reporting it might well be more open, but it doesn't make them more honest.
Some people on here do report a trip, others don't, it certainly doesn't make the ones who do more honest than those who don't.

It gives the appearance of honesty....humans at the end of the day are psychological emotional creatures and that includes people administrating U/C or taking decisions on such even in the face of rules and protocols. Courts are a classic place to see deliverance of strategies of openness and honesty including by the dishonest and downright criminal getting good legal advice. I've given examples regarding U/C where I think favour was gained with being open and honest.. including going outside of protocol by a DM to award an extension to the standard 1 month overseas absence before the absence had even begun.

It's a no brainer to me.... giving them information another government department could provide at later date.. and satisfying any ambiguity between actual legislation and the way U/C staff operate administering a claim. It takes less than a couple of minutes to do and there will be cases where things go wrong giving a starting point to explain or justify rather than having to backtrack on events. It also cuts out the overzealous agent in the future asking why something wasn't declared... and having the same arguments you get here about the rules... we know most agents are borderline clueless and having to argue with them will be a pain avoidable. It's an argument avoidable here if people just accept the rules and operation by staff of U/C do not always match and at the end of the day we're here to give claimants helpful advice as well as accurate advice. At the end of the day people are well within their rights to walk home down dark alleys at night but explaining that to a mugger may be a debate won at high cost.

There's a reason they stick a lot of call centres in the north east of England...lol

I have also seen on here that someone reported a holiday and they were asked for loads of info, proving when they left, when they returned etc. If they hadn't declared it very doubtful that they would had do have do it. Swings and roundabouts.

I agree there are overzealous agent, maybe seeing journal reports on holidays will set them off, who knows?
Maybe it is easier just to go along with reporting holidays as staff don't know the correct rules
There will be some that think benefit claimants should report all their movements that's why holidays should be notified.

If it's the case I think you refer to (it may not be as it sounds a little different to my memory) yes they ended up interviewed after the benefit was stopped unexpectedly... most likely as there was concern they were not habitually resident due to what sounded like frequent and lengthy (but under a month) trips abroad (something that possibly  would make me think twice about reporting them in journal as opposed to one offs). On one hand you might be right... without them detailing each trip U/C may never have had the information to cause suspicion although I suspect shifts towards them having that info will occur over time eventually... it exists and the direction of travel is for more joined up databases for detecting potential fraud. But the other hand is they could say all holidays were declared in journal, nothing to hide, intent is to live here in the UK... and in the case the benefit was quickly restored.

I do agree a strategy of giving information on need to know basis (as I think you described in that thread) can be useful but I'd be reluctant to use it universally and certainly breaking with it saved me and my wife a lot of anxiety and practical problems late last year when we gave information to U/C we did not need to (at least not at the time we did give it).

There are two options and nether are incorrect, give the readers our different views and let them decide what is best for them.

I state that you don't have you report, as it gives the OP (and any other readers) that it's fine not to depending on claimant commitment.
People might read this that haven't in the past reported their holiday and feel they have broken the rules and their benefit will be stopped because of it, and worry needlessly.

poppy12345

HillStreetBlues said:

Muttleythefrog said:

superM said:

I am working full time 30k a year and my wife is full time carer so she is exempted from job search. 

I guess claimant commitment will be to inform them of any change of circumstances which I do.  

Can I report holiday period online?  We don't have to go to job centre etc 

Thanks 

Yes you can just put a note in the online U/C journal... possibly for work coach (even if none is assigned given no work search requirements) as nothing specifically relevant as category I don't think.

The debate above has been had before here and likely will be had again. It's not clear what is best to do when intending holiday under a month for U/C... there's rule and there's practice but there's a reality claimants need to navigate that could involve some place between both especially if they're polar opposite as seems likely on this issue. My view is it is worth putting in journal as the journal is a great place to evidence intent and honesty. Whenever my partner has travelled abroad including for over a month being up front seemed a decent strategy although they insisted they be informed when she returned. But the thing about holidays is they can have unexpected events... everything from suffering illness to facing closed borders (like with Covid) and if you've been up front about intention it's easier I would say to then step in and justify/explain any changed plan and gain potential favour in ruling. I can't see any particular negative outcome for unnecessarily reporting a holiday... and comings and goings of Brits in and out of country are held by government anyway. 

At the end of the day a simple message in journal after flights (or equivalent) are booked is little effort... as is notifying of return. I always have in the back of my mind... openness and honesty when claiming benefits especially if there's contentious matter arise or assessments where integrity is important to value of evidence... has got to be a sensible strategy. When we advised U/C we would receive sale proceeds from my house and wanted those to be not considered as savings as we intended to buy another home to live in we found no friction or evidence requirements including when we asked for another 6 month extension... the decision letter even stated the statements in journal were consistent and realistic such that they could be relied on. And when my wife needed to urgently go abroad after her mother's death a decision maker completely unexpectedly (and not in line with the advice provided or protocol advised) stepped in and gave her a 2 month window to be abroad as she was about to head to the airport when normally you have to actually ask for a decision after entering the second month... no evidence was requested... but again I think being up front and honest was helpful as we reported her flights would mean less than a month abroad but realistically what she had to administratively deal with out there could take much longer and flight home changed to a later date (which ultimately it was).

A person is free to choose if or not to report a holiday (as long it fits in with there claimant comments), yes the person reporting it might well be more open, but it doesn't make them more honest.
Some people on here do report a trip, others don't, it certainly doesn't make the ones who do more honest than those who don't.

I totally agree with you. As my daughter's appointee for UC, she has LCWRA and when we go on holiday I do not report that to them. We go for 2 weeks maximum once a year and for me there's nothing to report. This doesn't make me any less honest than anyone else.