Advice on mortgaging a house with a septic tank with no permit

AuctionSmorkshun

Hi - I wonder if anyone has any advice?

I am trying to re-mortgage our house to get the funds to buy out my wife's share as we are in the process of separating; she has found a property and needs the money to proceed.

I received an offer from our current lender Nationwide and was happy then out of the blue the issue of us having a septic tank raised its head (I think the solicitor unprompted raised it with Nationwide). The rules have changed since we bought the house and I now require a permit for the septic tank which is at least 25 years old (gauged by the company name on the inspection covers) and complies with most of the general binding rules from the environment agency, except for

• I cannot provide the BS number for the system (it's probably written on the bottom!)
• We live amongst farmland and are in a water source protection zone (I think due to concerns about run-off nitrate from the fields to a nearby river)

I've applied for a permit from the environment agency but this can take up to 4 months to provide and understandably my wife is tearing her hair out at this point.  The solicitor is just advising us to get the system inspected by a professional, but we know where it is and having someone prod it is not going to change the fact that it does not have a permit.

Nationwide are saying that they will not proceed without a permit, and bar the helpdesk will not talk to me and will only deal with the solicitor. I cannot get any advice on whether there is anything else I can do.

Frankly if a permit is denied for us then it would be for at least 10 other properties in our area rendering them uninhabitable in the middle of a housing crisis - the house has been here for hundreds of years and there have been no complaints I am aware of, so I can't see a permit being denied (we probably pollute the river less than the housing estates nearby connected to the water company!)

I've asked Nationwide if there is any form of indemnity insurance that we could get but they have said they cannot advise until after I get the insurance which seems mad.

Does anyone have any advice on ways to potentially satisfy a lender over a septic tank or know of lenders who would lend without a permit (or anything else I could be doing that I've not thought of?)

Thanks in advance and apologies for the rambling text (also tearing my hair out)

propertyrental

Where does the run-off go? If to the farmers field, do you have farmer's consent? Is there a drainage field in the farmer's field?

If to the river - oh dear!

You may (I repeat may as it depends on circumstances) need to install a small sewage treatment plant.

Also, see

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6517083/non-compliant-septic-tank-indeminty-for-house-buyer/p1

ThisIsWeird

Hi AS.
Option to use another lender?
Which solicitor did you use - one employed by you? In which case, tell them to keep their blabbermouths shut next time.
Or, do the right thing and have the system inspected. Just because it's a 'septic tank' and not a TP does not mean it doesn't conform; as you say, there are countless STs around the country, working perfectly well, and environmentally happily.
If it's 'only' around 25 years old, then fair chance it's fine, and the outflow is leading to an acceptable drainage/soakaway point. But you won't know until it's inspected.
You have a manufacturer's name? Take some photos of the lid and any other parts you can see, and ask them which model they reckon it is, and how 'conforming' it is by current standards, and whether it's outwith being actionable. I would lay odds that it's 'fine'.

user1977

ThisIsWeird said:

Which solicitor did you use - one employed by you? In which case, tell them to keep their blabbermouths shut next time.

The solicitor also acts for the lender, so no, they can't "keep their blabbermouths shut" about things a lender ought to know.

mark_cycling00

It's a shame that your solicitor isn't able to give you better information on this. Clearly you're confused and not sure why this has come about.

I suspect that the simplest route they know is to make you pay for some sort of permit, with the risk that you might not be given it and then you're in the doodoo but not literally because your septic tank is probably working just fine.

Ideally they should explain the reasons like .. you are within xxx meters from a watercourse. Or you might run off into someone else's land etc.

With the second example you might be able to  confirm that your soak away goes the other direction. But Mr permit man probably won't be able to confirm that on a site visit and might not give you a permit. I'm saying that will happen but I'd consider it a risk.

I think one of my neighbours has gone through this, the nearest permit person was 60 miles away and asked lots of questions that she didn't know the answer to. 

propertyrental

https://www.homeseptic.co.uk/home-buyer-survey/

https://www.ukdpsolutions.co.uk/septic-tanks/services/septic-tank-inspections#anchor-27990

Other companies are available.

ThisIsWeird

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Which solicitor did you use - one employed by you? In which case, tell them to keep their blabbermouths shut next time.

The solicitor also acts for the lender, so no, they can't "keep their blabbermouths shut" about things a lender ought to know.

What should a lender 'know'? Part of the process will likely involve a valuation report, a low-level survey. That's when such issues are, or are not, picked up.

I cannot see any valid reason why this solicitor should take it upon themselves to 'wonder' about the septic tank and make it an issue, regardless of whether it is one.

youth_leader

My house was 1847 and luckily the Deeds had a handwritten plan of the septic tank and its pipework to the soakaway (on a neighbour's land, that's another story!). 

When I was getting the legal pack ready for auction my solicitor sent me a list of about twenty questions about it - have you seen this?  General binding rules: small sewage discharge to the ground - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

user1977

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Which solicitor did you use - one employed by you? In which case, tell them to keep their blabbermouths shut next time.

The solicitor also acts for the lender, so no, they can't "keep their blabbermouths shut" about things a lender ought to know.

What should a lender 'know'?

Things that a buyer's solicitor is likely to pick up on if the lender repossesses. Have a think about it.

ThisIsWeird

user1977 said:

Things that a buyer's solicitor is likely to pick up on if the lender repossesses. Have a think about it.

'Ouch!'

(That was the sound of me thinking.)

Hoenir

ThisIsWeird said:

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Which solicitor did you use - one employed by you? In which case, tell them to keep their blabbermouths shut next time.

The solicitor also acts for the lender, so no, they can't "keep their blabbermouths shut" about things a lender ought to know.

What should a lender 'know'? Part of the process will likely involve a valuation report, a low-level survey. That's when such issues are, or are not, picked up.

I cannot see any valid reason why this solicitor should take it upon themselves to 'wonder' about the septic tank and make it an issue, regardless of whether it is one.

The solicitor simply communicates facts to their client, the lender. The solicitor undertaking the remortgage in accordance with the format prescribed in the "UK FINANCE MORTGAGE LENDERS' HANDBOOK FOR CONVEYANCERS".  That's the bottom line.