Can't transfer my HSBC OEIC to Freetrade. Any suggestions to consider?

vacheron

Hi All. 

Just over a year ago I transferred £125k from my Scottish Widows pension to a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP, partially to access a less "antiquated" platform and partially because of the £1,500 cashback incentive running at the time!

I was aware that HL's platform charges of 0.45% weren't the cheapest around and would equate to about £45 per month in fees. But while the T's & C's required me to stay with HL for a minimum of 12 months, the cashback more than compensated for this.

Fast forward 12 months and I have the opportunity to move the fund again. While searching I noticed the Freetrade platform that offers a SIPP for a monthly fee of £9.99 which also included the fees to hold a S&S ISA which would also be useful to me. They are also currently offering a 1% cashback promotion which would benefit me to the tune of another £1,500 or so given the 18% rise in the fund over the past year.


The issue I have is that i was planning to transfer my HL SIPP "as-is", however this is currently 100% invested in the "HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic Portfolio" which is an OEIC, and Freetrade are not big fans of OEIC's and so do not offer them on their platform.

What I am therefore looking for is an equivalent an equivalent ETF or Unit Trust with a broadly similar allocation as the HSBC fund, but packaged as an ETF or Unit Trust which I am easily able to purchase on the Freetrade platform.

Does anyone have any suggestions for possible candidates I could consider?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.   

dunstonh

Just over a year ago I transferred £125k from my Scottish Widows pension to a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP, partially to access a less "antiquated" platform and partially because of the £1,500 cashback incentive running at the time!

I was aware that HL's platform charges of 0.45% weren't the cheapest around and would equate to about £45 per month in fees.

It is ironic that SW's platform is cheaper than HL's platform.  SW's platform is not antiquated.   SW platform uses FNZ software and they power the more platforms than anyone else.      However, I suspect you don't actually mean "platform" but one of their older products that isn't on the platform.   Their legacy products will appear dated compared to platform based options.

The issue I have is that i was planning to transfer my HL SIPP "as-is", however this is currently 100% invested in the "HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic Portfolio" which is an OEIC, and Freetrade are not big fans of OEIC's and so do not offer them on their platform.
What I am therefore looking for is an equivalent an equivalent ETF or Unit Trust with a broadly similar allocation as the HSBC fund, but packaged as an ETF or Unit Trust which I am easily able to purchase on the Freetrade platform.

OEICs and UTs fall under the same category.   So, if you need a direct asset rather than a fund, then you are looking at ETFs, ITs or shares.    Remember that you are giving up FSCS protection if you use those.

Linton

vacheron said:

Hi All. 

Just over a year ago I transferred £125k from my Scottish Widows pension to a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP, partially to access a less "antiquated" platform and partially because of the £1,500 cashback incentive running at the time!

I was aware that HL's platform charges of 0.45% weren't the cheapest around and would equate to about £45 per month in fees. But while the T's & C's required me to stay with HL for a minimum of 12 months, the cashback more than compensated for this.

Fast forward 12 months and I have the opportunity to move the fund again. While searching I noticed the Freetrade platform that offers a SIPP for a monthly fee of £9.99 which also included the fees to hold a S&S ISA which would also be useful to me. They are also currently offering a 1% cashback promotion which would benefit me to the tune of another £1,500 or so given the 18% rise in the fund over the past year.


The issue I have is that i was planning to transfer my HL SIPP "as-is", however this is currently 100% invested in the "HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic Portfolio" which is an OEIC, and Freetrade are not big fans of OEIC's and so do not offer them on their platform.

What I am therefore looking for is an equivalent an equivalent ETF or Unit Trust with a broadly similar allocation as the HSBC fund, but packaged as an ETF or Unit Trust which I am easily able to purchase on the Freetrade platform.

Does anyone have any suggestions for possible candidates I could consider?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.   

It would seem that Freetrade dont like Unit Trusts (which are "funds", very similar to OEICs) either.  Perhaps your meant "investment trusts" which are shares in companies that invest in other shares.  Like any other share they should be available on Freetrade.

Your problem is that your HSBC investment is a multi-asset fund including both equities and bonds.  The fund changes its asset allocations to manage overall volatility.  So this is an active fund  based on passive trackers..  I do not know of any direct equivalents as either investment trusts or ETFs.  The nearest you could reasonably get is to decide your own allocation and buy a global tracker and suitable bond ETF in appropriate proportions.

In using Freetrade you are in the world of designing your own portfolio rather than relying on products to do that for you.

Martico

I transferred a legacy pension to the Freetrade SIPP a few months ago, and have ploughed the bulk of it into VWRP - you may want to investigate that to see if it suits (I don't know enough to say how comparable it is, only that it's been broadly recommended as a global fund and is available on Freetrade). I pay £11.99 per month for the privilege. Should also say that the Freetrade team were very responsive on email throughout the transfer process

vacheron

dunstonh said:

Just over a year ago I transferred £125k from my Scottish Widows pension to a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP, partially to access a less "antiquated" platform and partially because of the £1,500 cashback incentive running at the time!

I was aware that HL's platform charges of 0.45% weren't the cheapest around and would equate to about £45 per month in fees.

It is ironic that SW's platform is cheaper than HL's platform.  SW's platform is not antiquated.   SW platform uses FNZ software and they power the more platforms than anyone else.      However, I suspect you don't actually mean "platform" but one of their older products that isn't on the platform.   Their legacy products will appear dated compared to platform based options.

The issue I have is that i was planning to transfer my HL SIPP "as-is", however this is currently 100% invested in the "HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic Portfolio" which is an OEIC, and Freetrade are not big fans of OEIC's and so do not offer them on their platform.
What I am therefore looking for is an equivalent an equivalent ETF or Unit Trust with a broadly similar allocation as the HSBC fund, but packaged as an ETF or Unit Trust which I am easily able to purchase on the Freetrade platform.

OEICs and UTs fall under the same category.   So, if you need a direct asset rather than a fund, then you are looking at ETFs, ITs or shares.    Remember that you are giving up FSCS protection if you use those.

Hi Dunstonh.

You are no doubt right about my use of "platform" I have a Personal Pension which began in 2010 and the website hasn't changed in the last 14 years and my credentials don't work on any of their more modern login pages, so this is my only experience of them.

This is what mine looks like

You (and Linton) were also correct about the Unit Trust. That was a slip of the brain on my part. I meant Investment Trust. I actually thought it looked wrong when I was typing it! 

vacheron

Linton said:

vacheron said:

Hi All. 

Just over a year ago I transferred £125k from my Scottish Widows pension to a Hargreaves Lansdown SIPP, partially to access a less "antiquated" platform and partially because of the £1,500 cashback incentive running at the time!

I was aware that HL's platform charges of 0.45% weren't the cheapest around and would equate to about £45 per month in fees. But while the T's & C's required me to stay with HL for a minimum of 12 months, the cashback more than compensated for this.

Fast forward 12 months and I have the opportunity to move the fund again. While searching I noticed the Freetrade platform that offers a SIPP for a monthly fee of £9.99 which also included the fees to hold a S&S ISA which would also be useful to me. They are also currently offering a 1% cashback promotion which would benefit me to the tune of another £1,500 or so given the 18% rise in the fund over the past year.


The issue I have is that i was planning to transfer my HL SIPP "as-is", however this is currently 100% invested in the "HSBC Global Strategy Dynamic Portfolio" which is an OEIC, and Freetrade are not big fans of OEIC's and so do not offer them on their platform.

What I am therefore looking for is an equivalent an equivalent ETF or Unit Trust with a broadly similar allocation as the HSBC fund, but packaged as an ETF or Unit Trust which I am easily able to purchase on the Freetrade platform.

Does anyone have any suggestions for possible candidates I could consider?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.   

It would seem that Freetrade dont like Unit Trusts (which are "funds", very similar to OEICs) either.  Perhaps your meant "investment trusts" which are shares in companies that invest in other shares.  Like any other share they should be available on Freetrade.

Your problem is that your HSBC investment is a multi-asset fund including both equities and bonds.  The fund changes its asset allocations to manage overall volatility.  So this is an active fund  based on passive trackers..  I do not know of any direct equivalents as either investment trusts or ETFs.  The nearest you could reasonably get is to decide your own allocation and buy a global tracker and suitable bond ETF in appropriate proportions.

In using Freetrade you are in the world of designing your own portfolio rather than relying on products to do that for you.

Thanks Linton. I also have a Vanguard Life Strategy fund which broadly follows the same approach as HSBC, but it seems that vanguard base the ratios on a percentage of equities, whereas HSBC use their own "volatitily" measuerment. Whether that would result in any hugely discernable difference in performance is open to discussion. (accepting that VLS seem to be a bit more UK based). 

I'm not that convinced that the rebalancing that the HSBC fund does justifies the fees over time though if this is something you could at least partially acheive yourself. 

The idea of a custom split using a glabal tracker /  bond ETF is interesting though. I'll look into it.  

Albermarle

Martico said:

I transferred a legacy pension to the Freetrade SIPP a few months ago, and have ploughed the bulk of it into VWRP - you may want to investigate that to see if it suits (I don't know enough to say how comparable it is, only that it's been broadly recommended as a global fund and is available on Freetrade). I pay £11.99 per month for the privilege. Should also say that the Freetrade team were very responsive on email throughout the transfer process

VWRP as a global index tracker  is 100% equity.
The HSBC fund mentioned is around 80% equity, so not equivalent.

dunstonh

You are no doubt right about my use of "platform" I have a Personal Pension which began in 2010 and the website hasn't changed in the last 14 years and my credentials don't work on any of their more modern login pages, so this is my only experience of them.

Their platform wasn't available in 2010.  Its a more recent creation. Indeed, they bought what was originally the Zurich platform but had a period under Embark but is now branded Scottish Widows.  

Thanks Linton. I also have a Vanguard Life Strategy fund which broadly follows the same approach as HSBC, but it seems that vanguard base the ratios on a percentage of equities, whereas HSBC use their own "volatitily" measuerment. Whether that would result in any hugely discernable difference in performance is open to discussion. (accepting that VLS seem to be a bit more UK based). 

HSBC has been beating Vanguard on performance for the best part of a decade.   Ironically, Vanguard do have a version without home bias but its only available via IFAs and that has been outperforming both the VLS OEIC and  HSBC OEIC.   The difference has virtually all been down to home bias vs no home bias.

Its also worth noting that Vanguard does also tweak the underlying ratios periodically.

I'm not that convinced that the rebalancing that the HSBC fund does justifies the fees over time though if this is something you could at least partially acheive yourself. 

HSBC is cheaper than vanguard.
Both Vanguard and HSBC, on their OEIC versions, rebalance daily by using inflows and outflows.

vacheron

dunstonh said:

HSBC has been beating Vanguard on performance for the best part of a decade.  

I'm not that convinced that the rebalancing that the HSBC fund does justifies the fees over time though if this is something you could at least partially acheive yourself. 

HSBC is cheaper than vanguard.
Both Vanguard and HSBC, on their OEIC versions, rebalance daily by using inflows and outflows.

Thanks again. 

I guess it all comes down to me wanting to have my cake and eat it. 

I'm happy with the HSBC fund, and its 0.21% ongoing charge. I just would rather have the HSBC fund (or equivalent) with in the provider who will give me £1380 in year 1 after charges rather than taking £675 as HL will. 

This is why I thought if "I can't have that fund, can I create something with broadly similar ratios using ETF and IT products". 

My comment about the the "value" of rebalancing was me considering if the HSBC re-balancing would gain me more than the £2K I would save in provider charges in the first year by switching from Vanguard to Freetrade had I been able to buy a non-rebalanced equivalent fund (or set of funds) which broadly matched the HSBC allocations on day 1 using things such as a global tracker and a bond ETF inside the Freetrade account as suggested by others above? 

BigBlueSky

@vacheron - I was just wondering how you got on with this and what you decided ?

I'm in a similar position and looking to move my SIPP in order to take advantage of the 1% cashback offer being offered by Freetrade.  Currently invested in the Vanguard LifeStrategy 100% fund, but this is not available with Freetrade.

vacheron

BigBlueSky said:

@vacheron - I was just wondering how you got on with this and what you decided ?

I'm in a similar position and looking to move my SIPP in order to take advantage of the 1% cashback offer being offered by Freetrade.  Currently invested in the Vanguard LifeStrategy 100% fund, but this is not available with Freetrade.

Hi BigBlueSky. 

Like so many of lifes non-urgent problems, and the good info raised by the experienced posters on this thread which casted a few doubts, plus other things getting in the way, I am still where I was, however, in anticipation I had signed up to Freetrades £11 per month service which offered shares + SSISA + SIPP, and forgot until it auto renewed so I am already £22 worse off simply by doing nothing! 

Current thinking is to wait it out until a platform who offers HSBC OEIC's has a similar promotion and then just move across the exact products I currently own. If nothing is forthcoming in the next few months, I will look at this again.

At the moment, contingency planning for any potential GCT implications from of Mr Starmers "painful budget" announcement is a far more pressing matter.