warning - 1st Central hike price scam

darrenfinlayson

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

A key frustration is, looking objectively, doesn't make sense and 1stCentral offer no satisfying explanation as to how someone who is 'unemployed' vs 'retired' could attract such a material premium change. 

Don't get hung up on that point. Nearly all insurers will rate unemployed people as significantly higher risk than retired people. The two groups have very different demographics and overall risk profiles - it's not because driving to a job interview is inherently riskier than driving to a bowls club.

What do I mean by overall risk profile? Well, to give an extent example, consider why an insurer might rate vicars as lower risk than footballers. Clue: it's not because they're worried about cars being hit by stray footballs while parked at the training ground.

The frustration is more related to the lack of definition to assist me in ensuring my response is accurate, I'm not attempting to answer in a way that lowers my premium or create an advantage for me, but if the implication of my selection is ambiguous to the point that 1st Central can tell me that 'Retired' is incorrect and that results in a £299 charge then we are in a situation that I have to take their word for it that I'm wrong.  At the end of the day, I'm still the same driver with 33 years no claims driving an average of 97 miles per month.

MyRealNameToo

darrenfinlayson said:

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

A key frustration is, looking objectively, doesn't make sense and 1stCentral offer no satisfying explanation as to how someone who is 'unemployed' vs 'retired' could attract such a material premium change. 

Don't get hung up on that point. Nearly all insurers will rate unemployed people as significantly higher risk than retired people. The two groups have very different demographics and overall risk profiles - it's not because driving to a job interview is inherently riskier than driving to a bowls club.

What do I mean by overall risk profile? Well, to give an extent example, consider why an insurer might rate vicars as lower risk than footballers. Clue: it's not because they're worried about cars being hit by stray footballs while parked at the training ground.

The frustration is more related to the lack of definition to assist me in ensuring my response is accurate, I'm not attempting to answer in a way that lowers my premium or create an advantage for me, but if the implication of my selection is ambiguous to the point that 1st Central can tell me that 'Retired' is incorrect and that results in a £299 charge then we are in a situation that I have to take their word for it that I'm wrong.  At the end of the day, I'm still the same driver with 33 years no claims driving an average of 97 miles per month.

Never seen any insurer or broker give a definition of employment status, job title or industry. In the absence of a definition it will come down to a plain English definition which generally will work in your favour. That said it does also somewhat depend on what other options are available as you should generally pick the most appropriate and if you take a "trust fund kid" it may be "Independent Means" is more appropriate than "Retired" 

I dont think you have actually have described what your circumstances are in detail. Similarly you haven't said how you purchased the policy, if it was a quote from their own website they have various different options under "other" 

If you disagree with their definition then register a complaint and escalate to the Financial Ombudsman if required. Unlike here however be clear on how you bought it so the FOS can see the options you were choosing from and explain your circumstances so they can judge if your selection was appropriate or if they agree with 1st Central that other options were more appropriate. 

Aretnap

darrenfinlayson said:

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

Here is a specific example (car insurance), and the scenario that I was caught with:
- they contacted me to validate my profession which I selected 'retired' believing it was the correct match
- they then told me on the phone that because I wasn't state pension age that it wasn't technically correct, even though I explained that I retired early
- they then talked me into choosing 'Unemployed', I explained that by definition that typically means I am either on an unemployment benefit or I'm actively seeking a job, but they convinced me to agree that this was a more accurate option
- because I was on the phone I didn't get to know the other options, one of which was 'houseperson' which to me seems more on point in the spirit of accuracy
- As a result of the change they told me that in addition to the £247 original 12 month insurance premium that I would need to pay them an additional £299
- I have 7 days to either pay the £299 or pay £80 to cancel the policy
- They initialised the conversation a couple of days after the 14 day 'cooling off period' in which there is no cost to cancel

Did their website provide a definition of "retired" when you filled in the questionaire?

If not, I would be making a complaint on the grounds that unless the insurer gives you a specific definition of a word, you are entitled to interpret it according to its ordinary meaning when answering the questions. And in ordinary parlance, someone who has stopped working, has no intention of working again, and is living on a pension/savings mainly acquired through work is retired.

"Independent means" might also be a possible descriptor, but to me that implies more someone living off an inheritance/trust fund/lottery win, rather than someone who has retired on savings acquired over a lifetime of work. "Unemployed" is clearly not correct in normal usage unless you are trying to find a job and/or claiming out of work benefits.

To that I would add that you presumably told them your age in answer to the questions and their system was happy to quote for you as a retired person. If they define "retired" in terms of age, their system should not let you select retired if you are not of state pension age, or should not give you a quote if you claim to be retired but are under 67.

The policy documents will have details of how to make a complaint. For the best chance of a successful complaint be concise, polite but firm, and say what outcome you would be happy with. If you are not happy with their response you can escalate your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at no cost (to you)

  I actually spotted the occupation of 'houseperson' which again feels like a good fit but the lack of clarity on the difference means I can't explicitly provide an accurate answer.  On a side note, having completed more than a dozen car insurance quotation forms the list of occupations vary across each, failing to have a common standard is another layer of confusion / lack of transparency. 

"House person" to me implies that you are being supported financially by a working partner - a non-sexist version of "housewife". Which might or might not be a good fit, depending on your domestic setup.

In any event if they don't provide you with specific definitions of terms then it comes down to what an ordinary person would understand them to mean - and so long as your interpretation is a reasonable one in the context of the options presented and your own situation then they should accept it. In the absence of a clearly better option, I'd say you were right first time to put down retired.

It sounds to me that you have pretty reasonable grounds to make a complaint and have the £100 cancellation fee refunded, at least.

MyRealNameToo

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

Here is a specific example (car insurance), and the scenario that I was caught with:
- they contacted me to validate my profession which I selected 'retired' believing it was the correct match
- they then told me on the phone that because I wasn't state pension age that it wasn't technically correct, even though I explained that I retired early
- they then talked me into choosing 'Unemployed', I explained that by definition that typically means I am either on an unemployment benefit or I'm actively seeking a job, but they convinced me to agree that this was a more accurate option
- because I was on the phone I didn't get to know the other options, one of which was 'houseperson' which to me seems more on point in the spirit of accuracy
- As a result of the change they told me that in addition to the £247 original 12 month insurance premium that I would need to pay them an additional £299
- I have 7 days to either pay the £299 or pay £80 to cancel the policy
- They initialised the conversation a couple of days after the 14 day 'cooling off period' in which there is no cost to cancel

Did their website provide a definition of "retired" when you filled in the questionaire?

If not, I would be making a complaint on the grounds that unless the insurer gives you a specific definition of a word, you are entitled to interpret it according to its ordinary meaning when answering the questions. And in ordinary parlance, someone who has stopped working, has no intention of working again, and is living on a pension/savings mainly acquired through work is retired.

"Independent means" might also be a possible descriptor, but to me that implies more someone living off an inheritance/trust fund/lottery win, rather than someone who has retired on savings acquired over a lifetime of work. "Unemployed" is clearly not correct in normal usage unless you are trying to find a job and/or claiming out of work benefits.

To that I would add that you presumably told them your age in answer to the questions and their system was happy to quote for you as a retired person. If they define "retired" in terms of age, their system should not let you select retired if you are not of state pension age, or should not give you a quote if you claim to be retired but are under 67.

The policy documents will have details of how to make a complaint. For the best chance of a successful complaint be concise, polite but firm, and say what outcome you would be happy with. If you are not happy with their response you can escalate your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at no cost (to you)

  I actually spotted the occupation of 'houseperson' which again feels like a good fit but the lack of clarity on the difference means I can't explicitly provide an accurate answer.  On a side note, having completed more than a dozen car insurance quotation forms the list of occupations vary across each, failing to have a common standard is another layer of confusion / lack of transparency. 

"House person" to me implies that you are being supported financially by a working partner - a non-sexist version of "housewife". Which might or might not be a good fit, depending on your domestic setup.

In any event if they don't provide you with specific definitions of terms then it comes down to what an ordinary person would understand them to mean - and so long as your interpretation is a reasonable one in the context of the options presented and your own situation then they should accept it. In the absence of a clearly better option, I'd say you were right first time to put down retired.

It sounds to me that you have pretty reasonable grounds to make a complaint and have the £100 cancellation fee refunded, at least.

Would say gender neutral rather than non-sexist as most would call a bloke staying at home to look after the home/kids whilst the wife is at work a "househusband" rather than calling him a housewife. 

I dont think we can judge if the answer was reasonable or not and therefore opine on prospects. The fact its plain English means its probably better than if it was defined terms but the OP has not given a clear indication of their situation. If they were single and living on disability benefits then neither mentioned options would be great options and 1st Central do have an unemployed due to disability option.  

Aretnap

MyRealNameToo said:

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

Aretnap said:

darrenfinlayson said:

Here is a specific example (car insurance), and the scenario that I was caught with:
- they contacted me to validate my profession which I selected 'retired' believing it was the correct match
- they then told me on the phone that because I wasn't state pension age that it wasn't technically correct, even though I explained that I retired early
- they then talked me into choosing 'Unemployed', I explained that by definition that typically means I am either on an unemployment benefit or I'm actively seeking a job, but they convinced me to agree that this was a more accurate option
- because I was on the phone I didn't get to know the other options, one of which was 'houseperson' which to me seems more on point in the spirit of accuracy
- As a result of the change they told me that in addition to the £247 original 12 month insurance premium that I would need to pay them an additional £299
- I have 7 days to either pay the £299 or pay £80 to cancel the policy
- They initialised the conversation a couple of days after the 14 day 'cooling off period' in which there is no cost to cancel

Did their website provide a definition of "retired" when you filled in the questionaire?

If not, I would be making a complaint on the grounds that unless the insurer gives you a specific definition of a word, you are entitled to interpret it according to its ordinary meaning when answering the questions. And in ordinary parlance, someone who has stopped working, has no intention of working again, and is living on a pension/savings mainly acquired through work is retired.

"Independent means" might also be a possible descriptor, but to me that implies more someone living off an inheritance/trust fund/lottery win, rather than someone who has retired on savings acquired over a lifetime of work. "Unemployed" is clearly not correct in normal usage unless you are trying to find a job and/or claiming out of work benefits.

To that I would add that you presumably told them your age in answer to the questions and their system was happy to quote for you as a retired person. If they define "retired" in terms of age, their system should not let you select retired if you are not of state pension age, or should not give you a quote if you claim to be retired but are under 67.

The policy documents will have details of how to make a complaint. For the best chance of a successful complaint be concise, polite but firm, and say what outcome you would be happy with. If you are not happy with their response you can escalate your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at no cost (to you)

  I actually spotted the occupation of 'houseperson' which again feels like a good fit but the lack of clarity on the difference means I can't explicitly provide an accurate answer.  On a side note, having completed more than a dozen car insurance quotation forms the list of occupations vary across each, failing to have a common standard is another layer of confusion / lack of transparency. 

"House person" to me implies that you are being supported financially by a working partner - a non-sexist version of "housewife". Which might or might not be a good fit, depending on your domestic setup.

In any event if they don't provide you with specific definitions of terms then it comes down to what an ordinary person would understand them to mean - and so long as your interpretation is a reasonable one in the context of the options presented and your own situation then they should accept it. In the absence of a clearly better option, I'd say you were right first time to put down retired.

It sounds to me that you have pretty reasonable grounds to make a complaint and have the £100 cancellation fee refunded, at least.

I dont think we can judge if the answer was reasonable or not and therefore opine on prospects. The fact its plain English means its probably better than if it was defined terms but the OP has not given a clear indication of their situation. If they were single and living on disability benefits then neither mentioned options would be great options and 1st Central do have an unemployed due to disability option.  

The OP did say that his retirement is funded through his savings which I took to mean that there are no benefits involved, but yes you're right that it will depend on the details of his situation. But taking what he says at face value, retired sounds like a pretty reasonable option, unless there's something significant that he hasn't mentioned.

Added: also, the OP says that the main reason 1st Central claimed he couldn't call himself retired is because he's not of state pension age, which sounds like rubbish to me. If they'd objected on the ground that he's claiming disability benefits, or that he's 25 and living on a trust fund, I presume he'd have mentioned that.

CruiseNut

Avoid - avoid - avois
Came off a multiple car policy and they willnot accept NCD despite the policy have 3 cars and 2 anmed drivers.....clearly we drove one each but multi car only produces one name on NCD.
Sent prriod NCD and proff on no cliams - still not enought
Cancel poliocy with little notice - so replacement is more expensive AND they want to try admin fees. - which will be argued !
They aren't worth dealing with - obviously cheap for a reaosn to catch you.