Employer using redundancy as pretext for unfair dismissal - your thoughts please?

Mark1_01

My situation is that I have been working at this place in England for 4 years, full time, office job, and have a spotless reputation and work ethic. I had a routine meeting with my line manager today, when out of the blue she pulls in someone from HR, says that my role is at risk of redundancy, then leaves the room. HR then proceeds to give me two choices 1. an 'off the record' offer to take redundancy pay (offered me more than statutory pay), and end employment. Or if I refuse that, then threatening me with 2. a consultation period, with redundancy at statutory pay.

I was so shocked that I refused #1 on principle, as I enjoy working here, and do not want to leave.

But because of the offer #1 that they made, I worry that the consultation process will just be a sham, and they'll cobble together some excuse to get rid of me.

I suspect the real reason is that a person is coming back from maternity leave soon, who has a similar role to me, and does not work well with me. She has been in the company longer, and likely has more pull with the senior management.

Any thoughts?

Emmia

How easily can you find another job? And how good is option 1?

Mark1_01

I can probably find another role fairly quickly. Option 1 wasn't that great. The main thing is: I like working here, and I like the people. And if they do proceed with redundancy, then it will be a total sham. My role has not been replaced in any way. If anything, their headcount is increasing.

Emmia

Mark1_01 said:

I can probably find another role fairly quickly. Option 1 wasn't that great. The main thing is: I like working here, and I like the people. And if they do proceed with redundancy, then it will be a total sham. My role has not been replaced in any way. If anything, their headcount is increasing.

As a woman (without kids/can't have kids) I find that the reality is that people think I'll be off on maternity "soon"  and I have found I've been overlooked because of a fear I'll be off to have babies. So I find it slightly refreshing that they're clearly keen on this person. 

The truth is you don't work well with this woman(why?) and the company doesn't want the friction that you and she will create - so can you move to a different part of the organisation/role where you don't interact? If they want her, but not you then the writing (as you recognise) is probably on the wall... 

Can they improve option 1?

Mark1_01

I don't think so: unless they just offer more money. But I don't want money: I want to continue working here. I'm also very disappointed that they would take this course of action without even giving it a chance to see if we work well together going forward. 

LinLui

Mark1_01 said:

I can probably find another role fairly quickly. Option 1 wasn't that great. The main thing is: I like working here, and I like the people. And if they do proceed with redundancy, then it will be a total sham. My role has not been replaced in any way. If anything, their headcount is increasing.

It doesn't matter how much you like working there or like the people. Sorry,  but realistically you aren't going to be working there much longer. And being brutally honest,  any idiot can engineer a "redundancy". You don't think your role is gone? I could cut ANY role in ten seconds, and still have all the tasks and an increasing headcount. So could anyone else here whose know of employment law is with a thing. 

So if you can really get a job easily,  then opting to go gets you a good reference ( make sure a good agreed reference is part of the package), the package, and a fresh start. Fighting it gets you less money, possibly no reference,  and months if not more of stress fighting at a tribunal - which you could easily lose,  but even if you didn't any settlement or award will be way less than you probably think. 

The short version of that is that they don't want to employ you any longer,  and that is a clear message. They can achieve that. You may at best win something with a claim. But you won't keep your job or get it back. 

Savvy_Sue

If you're in a union, I'd ask for your next meeting to be with you and your rep present. 

But I agree with the above: they want you gone, so go with the best package you can get, especially an agreed reference. 

And if not in a union, get back to them with "having considered your offer, I would like to discuss it further, especially ... " and that ... would include what they'll say in a reference, plus how soon you can leave (ideally before Madame returns from maternity leave). Remember that as well as your 'redundancy', you'll be entitled to any holiday accrued but not taken, so be ready to negotiate being paid for it and leaving fast. 

That, at least is what I'd do. 

The other thing to bear in mind is that in a consultation, even a real one (which I know you don't think this is), any sensible employer will be very very careful NOT to treat an employee either on or returning from maternity leave unfavourably. 

penners324

I think your best option is option 1. Maybe request a little more.

Then get your CV upto date and get it out there. And be prepared to walk into tomorrow morning and be walking out again at 9.30

Mr.Generous

I'm sure there is a specific ACAS guideline about trying to rush anyone into making a decision - find it and see what it says, They cannot do an "off the record" offer, you may need to consult an employment law solicitor.

When my wife was treated a bit like this during covid we got a solicitor who pointed out their failings and got us an increased offer plus his fees paid by the employer. they even said they cap fees at such and such, and he just said we'll my fee is higher and submitted a bill. They paid it.

Hoenir

Mark1_01 said:

1. an 'off the record' offer to take redundancy pay (offered me more than statutory pay), and end employment. 

Is this in excess of what you'd receive for making an unfair dismissal claim against your employer? 

LinLui

Mr.Generous said:

I'm sure there is a specific ACAS guideline about trying to rush anyone into making a decision - find it and see what it says, They cannot do an "off the record" offer, you may need to consult an employment law solicitor.

When my wife was treated a bit like this during covid we got a solicitor who pointed out their failings and got us an increased offer plus his fees paid by the employer. they even said they cap fees at such and such, and he just said we'll my fee is higher and submitted a bill. They paid it.

I'd be interested in a link to the specific ACAS guideline mentioned above. Not that the OP is being rushed into anything. They have been given two choices, and need to pick one. That is not an uncommon situation. They also certainly can (and have) made an off the record or informal offer. If it is a settlement agreement then there is a requirement for the OP to be advised by a solcitor or their union. And the employer would be well advised to make it a settlement agreement. But it equally could be termed as a voluntary redundancy, which has no such requirement. Without more information about the actual offer and terms, it is impossible to say.