Retailer lying about returned item

Veritas_Lux

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice on this situation.

I returned an item I ordered online. I spoke with customer service prior to returning and they approved the return.  Item was sent back in the original packaging, still sealed. I sent it back via Royal Mail Special Delivery so the company received the return the following day. I had no communication from them to confirm receipt and that the refund was being processed so after a couple of days I contacted customer service. They said they hadn't received it. The tracking clearly showed they had, so I uploaded the receipt. They then said they needed to 'investigate'. 

Days later instill hadn't heard anything so I chased it again. They said they were still investigating. 

As I had paid for the item using PayPal Pay in 3, I opened a dispute with them as I didn't want the next payment being taken before the issue was resolved. Explained the situation, uploaded the tracking receipts. 

Retailer then escalated the dispute to a claim, and responded that the only thing I returned was the free gift included in the order - a 30ml body spray. 

Luckily the weight of the package is on the tracking receipt - 1.49kg, so I have gone back to PayPal pointing this out.  I don't think there is a 30ml body spray in the world that weighs 1.49kg.  I am still waiting for PayPal to review the information. 

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 

If PayPal find in the retailers favour, where else can I go with this?  I am absolutely not paying for something I returned to them. 

Any advice appreciated. 
 

Aylesbury_Duck

Veritas_Lux said:

Hi everyone,

I am looking for some advice on this situation.

I returned an item I ordered online. I spoke with customer service prior to returning and they approved the return.  Item was sent back in the original packaging, still sealed. I sent it back via Royal Mail Special Delivery so the company received the return the following day. I had no communication from them to confirm receipt and that the refund was being processed so after a couple of days I contacted customer service. They said they hadn't received it. The tracking clearly showed they had, so I uploaded the receipt. They then said they needed to 'investigate'. 

Days later instill hadn't heard anything so I chased it again. They said they were still investigating. 

As I had paid for the item using PayPal Pay in 3, I opened a dispute with them as I didn't want the next payment being taken before the issue was resolved. Explained the situation, uploaded the tracking receipts. 

Retailer then escalated the dispute to a claim, and responded that the only thing I returned was the free gift included in the order - a 30ml body spray. 

Luckily the weight of the package is on the tracking receipt - 1.49kg, so I have gone back to PayPal pointing this out.  I don't think there is a 30ml body spray in the world that weighs 1.49kg.  I am still waiting for PayPal to review the information. 

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 

If PayPal find in the retailers favour, where else can I go with this?  I am absolutely not paying for something I returned to them. 

Any advice appreciated. 
 

Small claims court.

marcia_

 Sounds like you are doing everything right so
far just wait till paypal come back to you. Cant ser them siding with the retailer with the weight discrepancy 

Ergates

Veritas_Lux said:

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 
 

They're almost certainly not - the far more likely reason is that the item you returned has gone missing after receipt (or en-route).  They're doing this because they *believe* this is what has happened.

Who arranged the delivery for the return?  Was it them, or you?

Veritas_Lux

I hope not, but this just seems to be taking so long to resolve despite the clear evidence I have supplied. I don't understand what the retailer is trying to gain by lying. The fact the retailer escalated it to a claim tells me that they are digging their heels in over the situation. It's not as if they are a small company and I'm shocked they would do something like this. 

I'm in Scotland so I don't know if going to small claims is an option here.  Would a charge back via my bank be successful in this situation given that I paid via PayPal? 

Veritas_Lux

Ergates said:

Veritas_Lux said:

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 
 

They're almost certainly not - the far more likely reason is that the item you returned has gone missing after receipt (or en-route).  They're doing this because they *believe* this is what has happened.

Who arranged the delivery for the return?  Was it them, or you?

So, I had to contact the retailer to get the return approved - you can only access the return form if they approve the return.  They advised to send tracked via Royal Mail which I did. It cost me nearly £13 to send the parcel back, which is obviously based on weight. If they have lost the return after it has been received in their depot, that's not on me surely. The tracking clearly shows the item was delivered back to them. 

Ergates

Veritas_Lux said:

Ergates said:

Veritas_Lux said:

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 
 

They're almost certainly not - the far more likely reason is that the item you returned has gone missing after receipt (or en-route).  They're doing this because they *believe* this is what has happened.

Who arranged the delivery for the return?  Was it them, or you?

So, I had to contact the retailer to get the return approved - you can only access the return form if they approve the return.  They advised to send tracked via Royal Mail which I did. It cost me nearly £13 to send the parcel back, which is obviously based on weight. If they have lost the return after it has been received in their depot, that's not on me surely. The tracking clearly shows the item was delivered back to them. 

OK - this means that *you* have the contract with the courier and not them.  Which means that if it is necessary to deal with the courier (e.g. to raise a claim for the item going missing in transit) then this will, unfortunately, be your responsibility.

If the item was lost *after* delivery, and you/Royal Mail can prove that, then it is the retailers problem.  However, if they claim it was never delivered, and Royal Mail *can't* prove it was delivered intact, then they could legitimately refuse the refund, and you'd have to claim from Royal Mail for losing the item.

This is why it is always preferable, if possible, to have the retailer arrange for the courier for returns (as then it's their problem).

Hopefully they either find the item, or accept that it was lost after delivery.

noitsnotme

Veritas_Lux said:

Ergates said:

Veritas_Lux said:

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 
 

They're almost certainly not - the far more likely reason is that the item you returned has gone missing after receipt (or en-route).  They're doing this because they *believe* this is what has happened.

Who arranged the delivery for the return?  Was it them, or you?

So, I had to contact the retailer to get the return approved - you can only access the return form if they approve the return.  They advised to send tracked via Royal Mail which I did. It cost me nearly £13 to send the parcel back, which is obviously based on weight. If they have lost the return after it has been received in their depot, that's not on me surely. The tracking clearly shows the item was delivered back to them. 

Just an aside for future knowledge, you didn't have to send it by Special Delivery.  You could have sent it by the RM Tracked service which is considerably cheaper than Special Delivery.  A caveat being compensation on the Tracked service is up to £150 (compared to £750 for Special Delivery).

MattMattMattUK

Veritas_Lux said:

I hope not, but this just seems to be taking so long to resolve despite the clear evidence I have supplied.

Your "evidence" does not actually show anything. It shows a label for 1.49kg was purchased, but that does not mean the box was 1.49 kg, neither does it show that the box was delivered with the original content. 

Veritas_Lux said:

I don't understand what the retailer is trying to gain by lying.

They are very unlikely to be lying, they probably got back a box containing just the free gift.

Veritas_Lux said:

The fact the retailer escalated it to a claim tells me that they are digging their heels in over the situation. It's not as if they are a small company and I'm shocked they would do something like this. 

They are trying to establish if you did send back the goods and it was lost in transit, if it was lost at the depot etc. If you paid for the courier and it was lost in transit the loss falls on you, if they paid for the courier label then the loss falls on them provided the items were in the package at dispatch. Why are you shocked a company would want to make sure they were not being defrauded?

Veritas_Lux said:

I'm in Scotland so I don't know if going to small claims is an option here. 

Yes.

Veritas_Lux said:

Would a charge back via my bank be successful in this situation given that I paid via PayPal? 

Almost certainly not if you start it before the investigation has been completed. Probably not after the investigation has been completed if the supplier disputes the chargeback. Chargeback is also not a court, they could still pursue you for the money via the court if they chose to.

Veritas_Lux said:

Ergates said:

Veritas_Lux said:

I can't believe this retailer is blatantly lying about what was returned. I've ordered from them loads, have VIP status with them and have never returned anything to them until now, so it's not like they can make out I am a serial returner or make a habit of trying to commit fraud. I can't fathom why they are doing this. 
 

They're almost certainly not - the far more likely reason is that the item you returned has gone missing after receipt (or en-route).  They're doing this because they *believe* this is what has happened.

Who arranged the delivery for the return?  Was it them, or you?

So, I had to contact the retailer to get the return approved - you can only access the return form if they approve the return.  They advised to send tracked via Royal Mail which I did. It cost me nearly £13 to send the parcel back, which is obviously based on weight. 

The loss would be on you if it was lost in transit, did you purchase an insured service?

Veritas_Lux said:
If they have lost the return after it has been received in their depot, that's not on me surely. The tracking clearly shows the item was delivered back to them. 

If they lost it after it had been delivered then it is on them, if it was lost in transit then that loss is on you.

Wait for the investigation to be completed, if the outcome is not the one you want then raise a complaint, after that potentially consider court action. Remember that for a civil claim the evidential threshold is "balance of probabilities" not "beyond reasonable doubt".

Veritas_Lux

They can't have lost it though as they are admitting that they received the 30ml body spray. This was a free gift with the item which I also returned. It was returned in the same box. They are claiming that the rest of the contents of the parcel weren't there, i.e. the expensive item. I'm hoping that PayPal realise that a 30ml body spray doesn't weigh 1.49kg. 

Royal Mail tracking shows the GPS data for the package which matches the return address. They also provided a photo of the delivered package. The issue is that other than the weight, I have no proof of what was in the box. 

FlorayG

They say you returned the free gift only? That clearly means they received the parcel and the main item was missing from it. Sounds like theft somewhere along the chain to me, either with the courier or the retailer's warehouse staff.