Ex refuses to sign so I can remortgage

silvercar

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

If you repaid the current mortgage, by taking a new mortgage or whatever, why wouldn’t that automatically end it - without a signature being needed?

Because he has a charge on land registry which I have been told he would need to agree to transfer it apparently but I don’t understand why?! Because I would think it would just stay on land registry anyway. 

So this all hinges on your ex signing a deed of postponement. This would put him in second place after your new mortgage. 

If he refuses to sign, then the only option I can see is a new mortgage with the existing lender. 

Going to court to force him to sign would risk him appealing on the grounds of the ages of the children. Although your youngest has a few years of study remaining, I can imagine him arguing that the intention of the original order was for a 3 or 4 year course. So showing your youngest is still in tertiary education may be sufficient on the original order, but may risk a pesky judge deciding that it is time to call a halt. Even if the judge was with you on this point, he/she may decide that forcing a deed of postponement on your ex, puts his needs behind your new mortgage for a disproportionate length of time. Eg if you took out a new 20 year mortgage. He could then do nothing if you refused him his money in a few years time.

Hes only in his 2nd year at university anyway and will possibly do masters. Hes only 20 and is still dependent financially on me to see him through university. I cant do mortgage with current lender as they need a signature too. 

People have managed to get around this by using a lender’s website, they often only require one login to make changes.

MWT

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

If you repaid the current mortgage, by taking a new mortgage or whatever, why wouldn’t that automatically end it - without a signature being needed?

Because he has a charge on land registry which I have been told he would need to agree to transfer it apparently but I don’t understand why?! Because I would think it would just stay on land registry anyway. 

So this all hinges on your ex signing a deed of postponement. This would put him in second place after your new mortgage. 

If he refuses to sign, then the only option I can see is a new mortgage with the existing lender. 

Going to court to force him to sign would risk him appealing on the grounds of the ages of the children. Although your youngest has a few years of study remaining, I can imagine him arguing that the intention of the original order was for a 3 or 4 year course. So showing your youngest is still in tertiary education may be sufficient on the original order, but may risk a pesky judge deciding that it is time to call a halt. Even if the judge was with you on this point, he/she may decide that forcing a deed of postponement on your ex, puts his needs behind your new mortgage for a disproportionate length of time. Eg if you took out a new 20 year mortgage. He could then do nothing if you refused him his money in a few years time.

Hes only in his 2nd year at university anyway and will possibly do masters. Hes only 20 and is still dependent financially on me to see him through university. I cant do mortgage with current lender as they need a signature too. 

People have managed to get around this by using a lender’s website, they often only require one login to make changes.

Frustrating as all this is, it would seem unwise, at the minimum, to be falsely representing that a change had the approval of both parties to the mortgage...

silvercar

MWT said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

If you repaid the current mortgage, by taking a new mortgage or whatever, why wouldn’t that automatically end it - without a signature being needed?

Because he has a charge on land registry which I have been told he would need to agree to transfer it apparently but I don’t understand why?! Because I would think it would just stay on land registry anyway. 

So this all hinges on your ex signing a deed of postponement. This would put him in second place after your new mortgage. 

If he refuses to sign, then the only option I can see is a new mortgage with the existing lender. 

Going to court to force him to sign would risk him appealing on the grounds of the ages of the children. Although your youngest has a few years of study remaining, I can imagine him arguing that the intention of the original order was for a 3 or 4 year course. So showing your youngest is still in tertiary education may be sufficient on the original order, but may risk a pesky judge deciding that it is time to call a halt. Even if the judge was with you on this point, he/she may decide that forcing a deed of postponement on your ex, puts his needs behind your new mortgage for a disproportionate length of time. Eg if you took out a new 20 year mortgage. He could then do nothing if you refused him his money in a few years time.

Hes only in his 2nd year at university anyway and will possibly do masters. Hes only 20 and is still dependent financially on me to see him through university. I cant do mortgage with current lender as they need a signature too. 

People have managed to get around this by using a lender’s website, they often only require one login to make changes.

Frustrating as all this is, it would seem unwise, at the minimum, to be falsely representing that a change had the approval of both parties to the mortgage...

I wasn’t suggesting that at all. When I paid a chunk off a joint mortgage, using my online account, I wasn’t asked whether the other party had agreed to it.

MWT

silvercar said:

MWT said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

If you repaid the current mortgage, by taking a new mortgage or whatever, why wouldn’t that automatically end it - without a signature being needed?

Because he has a charge on land registry which I have been told he would need to agree to transfer it apparently but I don’t understand why?! Because I would think it would just stay on land registry anyway. 

So this all hinges on your ex signing a deed of postponement. This would put him in second place after your new mortgage. 

If he refuses to sign, then the only option I can see is a new mortgage with the existing lender. 

Going to court to force him to sign would risk him appealing on the grounds of the ages of the children. Although your youngest has a few years of study remaining, I can imagine him arguing that the intention of the original order was for a 3 or 4 year course. So showing your youngest is still in tertiary education may be sufficient on the original order, but may risk a pesky judge deciding that it is time to call a halt. Even if the judge was with you on this point, he/she may decide that forcing a deed of postponement on your ex, puts his needs behind your new mortgage for a disproportionate length of time. Eg if you took out a new 20 year mortgage. He could then do nothing if you refused him his money in a few years time.

Hes only in his 2nd year at university anyway and will possibly do masters. Hes only 20 and is still dependent financially on me to see him through university. I cant do mortgage with current lender as they need a signature too. 

People have managed to get around this by using a lender’s website, they often only require one login to make changes.

Frustrating as all this is, it would seem unwise, at the minimum, to be falsely representing that a change had the approval of both parties to the mortgage...

I wasn’t suggesting that at all. When I paid a chunk off a joint mortgage, using my online account, I wasn’t asked whether the other party had agreed to it.

I can imagine them not asking for a lump-sum repayment, but I very much doubt the OP could do much online at this point without needing to represent that they are speaking for both parties, if indeed it is even possible to make an online change given the mortgage has reached term.

Helpplease2024

MWT said:

silvercar said:

MWT said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

Helpplease2024 said:

silvercar said:

If you repaid the current mortgage, by taking a new mortgage or whatever, why wouldn’t that automatically end it - without a signature being needed?

Because he has a charge on land registry which I have been told he would need to agree to transfer it apparently but I don’t understand why?! Because I would think it would just stay on land registry anyway. 

So this all hinges on your ex signing a deed of postponement. This would put him in second place after your new mortgage. 

If he refuses to sign, then the only option I can see is a new mortgage with the existing lender. 

Going to court to force him to sign would risk him appealing on the grounds of the ages of the children. Although your youngest has a few years of study remaining, I can imagine him arguing that the intention of the original order was for a 3 or 4 year course. So showing your youngest is still in tertiary education may be sufficient on the original order, but may risk a pesky judge deciding that it is time to call a halt. Even if the judge was with you on this point, he/she may decide that forcing a deed of postponement on your ex, puts his needs behind your new mortgage for a disproportionate length of time. Eg if you took out a new 20 year mortgage. He could then do nothing if you refused him his money in a few years time.

Hes only in his 2nd year at university anyway and will possibly do masters. Hes only 20 and is still dependent financially on me to see him through university. I cant do mortgage with current lender as they need a signature too. 

People have managed to get around this by using a lender’s website, they often only require one login to make changes.

Frustrating as all this is, it would seem unwise, at the minimum, to be falsely representing that a change had the approval of both parties to the mortgage...

I wasn’t suggesting that at all. When I paid a chunk off a joint mortgage, using my online account, I wasn’t asked whether the other party had agreed to it.

I can imagine them not asking for a lump-sum repayment, but I very much doubt the OP could do much online at this point without needing to represent that they are speaking for both parties, if indeed it is even possible to make an online change given the mortgage has reached term.

Yes I wouldn’t want to do anything untoward or falsely represent. Its better to sort this out by the book as difficult as it is. 

Helpplease2024

silvercar said:

BarelySentientAI said:

MeteredOut said:

MWT said:

MeteredOut said:

For how long can someone stay in tertiary education?

It is another example of a poor use of language in this order as it doesn't seem to have a precise definition, so could extend well beyond the usual 3 year university course to include post-graduate studies or even a doctorate for example.

BarelySentientAI said:

MeteredOut said:

For how long can someone stay in tertiary education?

Indefinitely.

Yes, its was a bit of a rhetorical question - just wondered if the OP had noted that too. I'm no lawyer, but its the clause that immediately jumped out at me when I read the wording. The OPs ex's solicitor has let them down too.

I wonder if there's even a legal definition of tertiary education. eg, if the OPs son started an online course, and argued they were still in education, or if they started an open university course.

I was somehow still a student at Brunel for 6 years after finishing a couple of modules from a course as CPD.  Annually renewed student card posted to me, active .ac.uk email address, offered modules to pick each term, etc.

I'd have probably been able to claim I was still in tertiary education through that period, despite not being within 200 miles of the campus.

You may have been able to claim that, I doubt a judge would accept a one hour a week flower arranging course would qualify as still being “in tertiary education”. A recent thread on the student board was started by someone who obtained a student loan in their 70s, doesn’t mean they could claim to still be in education.

Arguably, when you finish your first degree you are then out of education, even if you start another course a few months later.

They are both doing very academic degrees which will in time be lucrative for them. Shame their earnings will end up paying back a man whom was never a part of their lives. His loss though. 

Helpplease2024

Hoenir said:

MWT said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to compel him to sign.

I know there will be views that favour other routes and actions that could have released the Ex earlier, but I'd still be surprised at this point if a count didn't side with the OP to the extent that the Ex should not be able to block their removal from the current mortgage and permit the remortgage as long as it doesn't reduce the equity in the process.

The children are now independent adults. The Court will no longer step in as their Guardian and act to both protect their interests and welfare. Which was the purpose of the original order. 

The purpose of the order was to see them through tertiary education thats why its on the order. You cant make a child homeless when at university. They still need support. As most of you will know even at university your children still need financial support and a home to go to. 

Helpplease2024

Hoenir said:

MWT said:

Hoenir said:

MWT said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to compel him to sign.

I know there will be views that favour other routes and actions that could have released the Ex earlier, but I'd still be surprised at this point if a count didn't side with the OP to the extent that the Ex should not be able to block their removal from the current mortgage and permit the remortgage as long as it doesn't reduce the equity in the process.

The children are now independent adults. The Court will no longer step in as their Guardian and act to both protect their interests and welfare. Which was the purpose of the original order. 

I don't think it is quite that simple as the original order clearly did envisage protection through to the end of tertiary education which has not yet been reached, and did require the OP to remove the Ex from the mortgage which is now being prevented by the Ex refusing to sign the paperwork required to release him from the mortgage and replace that with a new mortgage.

Merely expressing a different perspective. In that the "adults" are now old enough to adapt to a change in circumstances. Whereas the purpose of the order originally was to protect them and provide a secure living arrangement. 

They still need a secure living arrangement. 

Southend_2

In what world is a twenty something university student still considered a child?

silvercar

Southend_2 said:

In what world is a twenty something university student still considered a child?

In Britain. Something that has been true for the last 20+ years. Student loans are based on parental income. For at least the last decade student loans, even with parental contribution, are unlikely to be sufficient to cover basic living costs.

Even a non- student 20 something year old is unlikely to be able to afford to move out of home.