Help! Argument about returning item.

born_again

lilybug101 said:

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond already. The item was delivered boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. Obviously my parents no longer have that packaging (because it was received last summer). It was a kerb side delivery which my younger brother and partner helped assemble as you say (we were there for the weekend of the big birthday!) Unfortunately we both live a few hours from my parents now so helping disassemble would be a huge pain. 

The courier I believe will take the item (as they delivered it as many say) it's more im not sure how we will find boxes and packing durable enough to package it (they did offer me £10 which seems rather ridiculous!
Nor do I feel my father will be able to do this on his own

I have asked if the vendor can send packaging to enable us to do this and they are refusing (that's when they offered me £10). 

In terms of first question we are liaising with the retailer. The manufacturer website just directs you to the retailer for questions. The retailer website mentions a 1 year warranty buy doesn't detail what that entails. And we don't think we were ever sent one? 

If the item is paid for on credit card is there merit exploring a refund that way? And we will just use the money to buy another bbq from another retailer? 

In reality no.
From OP, can take it that it was your card, but delivered to 3rd party address no where near you. So CC would throw out S75. 
No chargeback right.

Packaging, pop to argos etc & buy some removal boxes. pallet, have a look round local area, often can be had for nothing from retailers/factories.

DullGreyGuy

born_again said:

lilybug101 said:

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond already. The item was delivered boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. Obviously my parents no longer have that packaging (because it was received last summer). It was a kerb side delivery which my younger brother and partner helped assemble as you say (we were there for the weekend of the big birthday!) Unfortunately we both live a few hours from my parents now so helping disassemble would be a huge pain. 

The courier I believe will take the item (as they delivered it as many say) it's more im not sure how we will find boxes and packing durable enough to package it (they did offer me £10 which seems rather ridiculous!
Nor do I feel my father will be able to do this on his own

I have asked if the vendor can send packaging to enable us to do this and they are refusing (that's when they offered me £10). 

In terms of first question we are liaising with the retailer. The manufacturer website just directs you to the retailer for questions. The retailer website mentions a 1 year warranty buy doesn't detail what that entails. And we don't think we were ever sent one? 

If the item is paid for on credit card is there merit exploring a refund that way? And we will just use the money to buy another bbq from another retailer? 

In reality no.
From OP, can take it that it was your card, but delivered to 3rd party address no where near you. So CC would throw out S75. 
No chargeback right.

Packaging, pop to argos etc & buy some removal boxes. pallet, have a look round local area, often can be had for nothing from retailers/factories.

Where it's delivered is irrelevant, it is who was the contracting party that matters. There are plenty of FOS cases with them ruling in favour of the debtor for gifts etc as long as it's clear that the cardholder was the person in contract. 


What brand is the Kamando BBQ? It's not Big Green Egg as they have lifetime warranties but is it another decent brand?

Do they need the whole thing returned? Certainly with BGE you only return the damaged part and they send a replacement, only complexity comes if designs have changed (eg hinges) but generally they ensure the ceramic parts dont and remain compatible with new and old hardware. 

lisyloo

born_again said:

lilybug101 said:

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond already. The item was delivered boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. Obviously my parents no longer have that packaging (because it was received last summer). It was a kerb side delivery which my younger brother and partner helped assemble as you say (we were there for the weekend of the big birthday!) Unfortunately we both live a few hours from my parents now so helping disassemble would be a huge pain. 

The courier I believe will take the item (as they delivered it as many say) it's more im not sure how we will find boxes and packing durable enough to package it (they did offer me £10 which seems rather ridiculous!
Nor do I feel my father will be able to do this on his own

I have asked if the vendor can send packaging to enable us to do this and they are refusing (that's when they offered me £10). 

In terms of first question we are liaising with the retailer. The manufacturer website just directs you to the retailer for questions. The retailer website mentions a 1 year warranty buy doesn't detail what that entails. And we don't think we were ever sent one? 

If the item is paid for on credit card is there merit exploring a refund that way? And we will just use the money to buy another bbq from another retailer? 

In reality no.
From OP, can take it that it was your card, but delivered to 3rd party address no where near you. So CC would throw out S75. 
No chargeback right.

Packaging, pop to argos etc & buy some removal boxes. pallet, have a look round local area, often can be had for nothing from retailers/factories.

Anecdotally, Amex often chargeback immediately, ask questions later.
Many companies are not organised enough to appeal within 20 days.
So it can work with Amex for those reasons.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Alderbank said:

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

I'm not sure about that one

The regs say it is the trader who must collect, the trader is using a third party that requires it to be boxed, I think that's the trader's problem.

I agree it probably reasonable for kerbside pick up if that's where it was delivered.

lisyloo

I don't think it's reasonable to expect a trader to pick up an unboxed item.

If it was a car then yes, but for something that arrives packaged in a box then it should go back in a box.

born_again

lisyloo said:

born_again said:

lilybug101 said:

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond already. The item was delivered boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. Obviously my parents no longer have that packaging (because it was received last summer). It was a kerb side delivery which my younger brother and partner helped assemble as you say (we were there for the weekend of the big birthday!) Unfortunately we both live a few hours from my parents now so helping disassemble would be a huge pain. 

The courier I believe will take the item (as they delivered it as many say) it's more im not sure how we will find boxes and packing durable enough to package it (they did offer me £10 which seems rather ridiculous!
Nor do I feel my father will be able to do this on his own

I have asked if the vendor can send packaging to enable us to do this and they are refusing (that's when they offered me £10). 

In terms of first question we are liaising with the retailer. The manufacturer website just directs you to the retailer for questions. The retailer website mentions a 1 year warranty buy doesn't detail what that entails. And we don't think we were ever sent one? 

If the item is paid for on credit card is there merit exploring a refund that way? And we will just use the money to buy another bbq from another retailer? 

In reality no.
From OP, can take it that it was your card, but delivered to 3rd party address no where near you. So CC would throw out S75. 
No chargeback right.

Packaging, pop to argos etc & buy some removal boxes. pallet, have a look round local area, often can be had for nothing from retailers/factories.

Anecdotally, Amex often chargeback immediately, ask questions later.
Many companies are not organised enough to appeal within 20 days.
So it can work with Amex for those reasons.

Visa/Master card would not as it is out of time for a faulty chargeback.

Newbie_John

I feel like everyone is too polite here

Sorry, but you ordered a heavy BBQ online, thrown away all boxes, assembled, moved and handled it by yourself or whoever did this.

Now you'd like to replace it/ return it and are unable to do it again in reverse order? Asking company to send the wrapping paper? 

Use some old boxes, paper, clothes, buy some from anywhere including Amazon, local shops, or just ask for free boxes - in supermarket.
To handle/move/disassemble - go and help your parents, ask neighbour, friend, or just get one of those DIY ppl for a quick job.

Seller is being really helpful here and I think you're trying to abuse their helpfulness - and then all companies now change their return policy charging for returns, banning customers from buying in their shops.. 

Alderbank

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The regs say it is the trader who must collect, the trader is using a third party that requires it to be boxed, I think that's the trader's problem.

The OP tells us that the goods were delivered to the kerbside boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. These are heavy, fragile ceramic items and the carrier has made it clear they will not collect them loose and unprotected. 

The actual wording of section 20(7)(b) is 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader'.
I contend that means putting the goods back to the location and condition, including the original or otherwise safe packaging, in which the carrier will collect them.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Alderbank said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The regs say it is the trader who must collect, the trader is using a third party that requires it to be boxed, I think that's the trader's problem.

The OP tells us that the goods were delivered to the kerbside boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. These are heavy, fragile ceramic items and the carrier has made it clear they will not collect them loose and unprotected. 

The actual wording of section 20(7)(b) is 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader'.
I contend that means putting the goods back to the location and condition, including the original or otherwise safe packaging, in which the carrier will collect them.

Your fridge or washing machines breaks down after 5 years are you keeping the box in the loft?  

This is a bit like the passing of risk argument, if the trader was collecting the goods they'd just be collecting that item (maybe another and maybe dropping some off as well) but the point is they'd have a suitable vehicle and would take care of the goods whilst transporting them directly from A-B.

The fact the trader is opting to use a third party to fulfil their obligation who requires extra packing because it's going on 3 lorries via 2 hubs and the staff aren't going to have the time to take great care of a single item/pallet due to the volume they carry isn't the consumer's problem in my view. 

With the fridge/washing machine example there isn't always a need to repackage goods because the big companies are using their own staff and vehicles, they have control over that, it's only the lack of control over a third party that creates the requirement to package the goods up. 

DullGreyGuy

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The regs say it is the trader who must collect, the trader is using a third party that requires it to be boxed, I think that's the trader's problem.

The OP tells us that the goods were delivered to the kerbside boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. These are heavy, fragile ceramic items and the carrier has made it clear they will not collect them loose and unprotected. 

The actual wording of section 20(7)(b) is 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader'.
I contend that means putting the goods back to the location and condition, including the original or otherwise safe packaging, in which the carrier will collect them.

Your fridge or washing machines breaks down after 5 years are you keeping the box in the loft?  

Have you had a fridge or washing machine delivered in a box? Ours just had protection on the top corners, sat on a pallet and wrapped in effectively clingfilm.