Help! Argument about returning item.

lilybug101

Hi there. I purchased a bbq from an online provider about 10 months ago for my aging fathers birthday. It states online there is a one year warranty on the item (although on inspection the warranty particulars were never sent/shared with us...false advertising perhaps, which I think is why they have agreed to replace it?). Ultimately the bbq has developed a huge crack in the vent at the top. The seller seems to have admitted a fault in the item, and has agreed to replace once we return the item. However the bbq weighs 86kg. They have suggested their courier will not pick the item up unboxed. I thought we came to an aggrement after much back and forth around wrapping the item in bubble wrap but they have now said that too is insufficient. Instead they have now also said we must disassemble the bbq, wrap it and box it, before it can be collected. Even when disassembled the ceramic drums would weigh 35kg each and my elderly parents just can't do that. What are my rights?? Please help! 

powerful_Rogue

lilybug101 said:

Hi there. I purchased a bbq from an online provider about 10 months ago for my aging fathers birthday. It states online there is a one year warranty on the item (although on inspection the warranty particulars were never sent/shared with us...false advertising perhaps, which I think is why they have agreed to replace it?). Ultimately the bbq has developed a huge crack in the vent at the top. The seller seems to have admitted a fault in the item, and has agreed to replace once we return the item. However the bbq weighs 86kg. They have suggested their courier will not pick the item up unboxed. I thought we came to an aggrement after much back and forth around wrapping the item in bubble wrap but they have now said that too is insufficient. Instead they have now also said we must disassemble the bbq, wrap it and box it, before it can be collected. Even when disassembled the ceramic drums would weigh 35kg each and my elderly parents just can't do that. What are my rights?? Please help! 

Warranty and consumer rights are two different things. Are you talking to the retailer you purchased the item from, or the manufacturer of the BBQ?

lisyloo

Are they dealing with it under warranty. A lot of warranties are "return to base".
I have a large touring caravan and even that has to be transported back.
Do they require the whole BBQ back?
Can you (or another family member of friend) not help them wrap and disassemble it?

LinLui

It seems that the issue is the terms under which the courier will operate, and the seller can't control those. Simply wrapping it wouldn't protect the courier (or their risk of someone saying they damaged it) so I can see why they would want it properly wrapping and boxed. Whilst I understand this is difficult for your parents to do, in the end you bought it and it's your problem to resolve. If there is nobody else who can do this, perhaps you will need to hire a handyman to do it? 

Alderbank

LinLui said:

It seems that the issue is the terms under which the courier will operate, and the seller can't control those. Simply wrapping it wouldn't protect the courier (or their risk of someone saying they damaged it) so I can see why they would want it properly wrapping and boxed. Whilst I understand this is difficult for your parents to do, in the end you bought it and it's your problem to resolve. If there is nobody else who can do this, perhaps you will need to hire a handyman to do it? 

I think you mean 'the buyer can't control those'?
It is the seller's couriers who are grumbling, the seller is the only party who has a contract with the courier.

In terms of the OP's rights, section 20(7) of the Consumer Rights Act says 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.'

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The kit of parts weighed 86Kg and included two components each weighing 35Kg so the buyer's elderly parents must have enlisted help to unpack the parts and assemble them. Would those kind helpers be willing to help them take it apart again to be returned?

HillStreetBlues

Alderbank said:

LinLui said:

It seems that the issue is the terms under which the courier will operate, and the seller can't control those. Simply wrapping it wouldn't protect the courier (or their risk of someone saying they damaged it) so I can see why they would want it properly wrapping and boxed. Whilst I understand this is difficult for your parents to do, in the end you bought it and it's your problem to resolve. If there is nobody else who can do this, perhaps you will need to hire a handyman to do it? 

I think you mean 'the buyer can't control those'?
It is the seller's couriers who are grumbling, the seller is the only party who has a contract with the courier.

In terms of the OP's rights, section 20(7) of the Consumer Rights Act says 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.'

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The kit of parts weighed 86Kg and included two components each weighing 35Kg so the buyer's elderly parents must have enlisted help to unpack the parts and assemble them. Would those kind helpers be willing to help them take it apart again to be returned?

If OP is claiming due to their rights, then they would be able to claim any costs of breaking down and assembly of replacement.

TELLIT01

A courier provided by the vendor delivered the item so surely it must be within weight limits for the same courier to collect.  I can understand the courier not being willing to take an unboxed item but can the vendor be persuaded to send a box and packaging to assist with the return.

Alternatively, as the crack seems to be in one component, can just that item be returned?

Alderbank

HillStreetBlues said:

Alderbank said:

LinLui said:

It seems that the issue is the terms under which the courier will operate, and the seller can't control those. Simply wrapping it wouldn't protect the courier (or their risk of someone saying they damaged it) so I can see why they would want it properly wrapping and boxed. Whilst I understand this is difficult for your parents to do, in the end you bought it and it's your problem to resolve. If there is nobody else who can do this, perhaps you will need to hire a handyman to do it? 

I think you mean 'the buyer can't control those'?
It is the seller's couriers who are grumbling, the seller is the only party who has a contract with the courier.

In terms of the OP's rights, section 20(7) of the Consumer Rights Act says 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.'

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The kit of parts weighed 86Kg and included two components each weighing 35Kg so the buyer's elderly parents must have enlisted help to unpack the parts and assemble them. Would those kind helpers be willing to help them take it apart again to be returned?

If OP is claiming due to their rights, then they would be able to claim any costs of breaking down and assembly of replacement.

Maybe.

We haven't been told exactly where the consumer took physical possession of the goods. Garden items of that weight are often 'kerbside delivery'.
Section 20(8) says  'the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.'

I don't think that the intention is for the trader to bear the costs of the consumer assembling or disassembling goods in his back garden after taking physical possession. 

LinLui

Alderbank said:

LinLui said:

It seems that the issue is the terms under which the courier will operate, and the seller can't control those. Simply wrapping it wouldn't protect the courier (or their risk of someone saying they damaged it) so I can see why they would want it properly wrapping and boxed. Whilst I understand this is difficult for your parents to do, in the end you bought it and it's your problem to resolve. If there is nobody else who can do this, perhaps you will need to hire a handyman to do it? 

I think you mean 'the buyer can't control those'?
It is the seller's couriers who are grumbling, the seller is the only party who has a contract with the courier.

In terms of the OP's rights, section 20(7) of the Consumer Rights Act says 'the consumer has a duty to make the goods available for collection by the trader or (if there is an agreement for the consumer to return rejected goods) to return them as agreed.'

The BBQ was delivered packed in a box suitable for safe transportation in a vehicle. I think a court would consider it reasonable for the consumer to make it available for collection in a similar state.

The kit of parts weighed 86Kg and included two components each weighing 35Kg so the buyer's elderly parents must have enlisted help to unpack the parts and assemble them. Would those kind helpers be willing to help them take it apart again to be returned?

No I didn't mean that.  I said what I meant. The courier company is entirely separate from the seller or the buyer. They set their own conditions,  and if someone can't or won't comply they simply refuse to carry the item. 

lilybug101

Thank you all so much for taking the time to respond already. The item was delivered boxed, in heavy protection and on a pallet. Obviously my parents no longer have that packaging (because it was received last summer). It was a kerb side delivery which my younger brother and partner helped assemble as you say (we were there for the weekend of the big birthday!) Unfortunately we both live a few hours from my parents now so helping disassemble would be a huge pain. 

The courier I believe will take the item (as they delivered it as many say) it's more im not sure how we will find boxes and packing durable enough to package it (they did offer me £10 which seems rather ridiculous!
Nor do I feel my father will be able to do this on his own

I have asked if the vendor can send packaging to enable us to do this and they are refusing (that's when they offered me £10). 

In terms of first question we are liaising with the retailer. The manufacturer website just directs you to the retailer for questions. The retailer website mentions a 1 year warranty buy doesn't detail what that entails. And we don't think we were ever sent one? 

If the item is paid for on credit card is there merit exploring a refund that way? And we will just use the money to buy another bbq from another retailer? 

lisyloo

You can pursue with the credit card company but the retailer has said they will take it back. 
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but the credit card company aren't there to deal with your fathers inability to package the item.
I've had several infirm parents myself so I sympathise but it can't be impossible to find someone locally to help or to get free packaging.
I would suggest contacting the local church or charities to find a volunteer (do you or other family members never visit?).
For packaging join a number of local freecycle sites on facebook. Someone will have moved house and be getting rid of boxes. It doesn't have to be a perfect sized box as long as it's securely wrapped.

have you pursued the route of only sending back the faulty part? (apologies if I've missed that).

The credit card is not there to attend to your elderly parents needs. However if it happens to be AMEX they will be more helpful. What type of card was it please? mastercard, visa or AMEX?