Named as driver

PCNonymous

Hi Folks,

Sorry if any of this should be obvious from the stickies, but I wasn't sure after reading them.
Here is the background, without giving too much away. I received a private parking charge for an event that occurred in May of this year. I was unaware that the road was private. 
My company owns the car outright but I am the registered keeper (no lease or third party company involved). My company's admin received the initial "PCN" and then nominated me as the "driver" (not as the keeper).
The template I saw on the sticky suggests no admissions should be made as to may have been driving. Should I request that my company withdraw that statement by email, since they had no idea who was really driving?

Secondly, the template suggests that the complainant "must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle". They haven't done this on the letter, but they ARE included in the evidence when you go to their site. There are several photos of a driver, helping a passenger load something into a car and there is also a close up of a very small sign saying "No stopping. Private road", etc. This would not have been clearly visible when driving onto the road.
My question here is, do I just omit the part about no evidence from my appeal? And, given that there is evidence, does that make a case harder to win?

I am currently about 16 days after the issuance of the notice against my name. No court letters yet or anything.
If any further detail is needed, please let me know.

Many thanks in advance. Love what you all do!

Gr1pr

Your company should have named you as hirer, not driver, your company were not a witness to who was driving, so can only assume, but should not  they have no idea who was driving, it could have been myself, or a mechanic etc

You should only be dealing with an actual postal NtH in your own name, sent to you by the private parking company, treated as a Notice to Hirer, which should have included a copy of the agreement too

We would hope that YOU as hirer have not revealed who was driving ?

If you have NO NtH in your own name, then you shouldn't be replying to anyone, your company remains possibly liable unless they comply with POFA 2012 , plus the bvrla memorandum of understanding too, if they are a member of the bvrla. , so are they. ?

Lastly, who is the parking company. ? And has everyone complied with POFA. ?

Fruitcake

As above, which PPC issued the charge.

Have you received a NTH or a NTD from the PPC? If you have, irrespective of how it is addressed, appeal as hirer/lessee using the relevant edna basher letters you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. 
If you were not the driver, then say so, otherwise say nothing.

Note that loading/unloading is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard.
Also note that the signs are prohibitive. A driver cannot agree to terms and conditions that prohibit stopping.

KeithP

PCNonymous said:

My company owns the car outright but I am the registered keeper (no lease or third party company involved). My company's admin received the initial "PCN" and then nominated me as the "driver" (not as the keeper).

I'm struggling with this bit.

If you are the Registered Keeper, then the only address the DVLA have for that vehicle is your address.
So how on earth did the parking company manage to get the name and address of 'your company's admin'?

PCNonymous

KeithP said:

PCNonymous said:

My company owns the car outright but I am the registered keeper (no lease or third party company involved). My company's admin received the initial "PCN" and then nominated me as the "driver" (not as the keeper).

I'm struggling with this bit.

If you are the Registered Keeper, then the only address the DVLA have for that vehicle is your address.
So how on earth did the parking company manage to get the name and address of 'your company's admin'?

Thanks for the reply. You are absolutely right, I hadn't understood that I am not the registered keeper. It turns out they never nominated me as the RK.

I also need to point out that there is no hire contract. It is a bit of an odd company car situation. My company is small and they preferred to just buy a car and provide it for my use rather than go through a fleet management company. They pay the insurance and all associated costs whenever presented with receipts for service, upkeep, etc. Although it is odd, the situation has worked well for me so I don't mind it, and the company have generally treated me very well.

Gr1pr

Then they are the registered keeper and you may well be named on the insurance policy, so you appear to be a company employee driving a company vehicle , not the Registered Keeper. ( You do not have a V5C with your details on it. )

So start again 

The important questions are , did the RK company name you to the private parking company. ? If yes, using What exact designation. ? Hirer ? , Keeper. ? , hirer. ?  Lessee. ?  Or Driver. ?

If yes, did you receive a parking charge notice from the parking company with your own name and address on it. ?  Yes or no. ?

PCNonymous

Gr1pr said:

Your company should have named you as hirer, not driver, your company were not a witness to who was driving, so can only assume, but should not  they have no idea who was driving, it could have been myself, or a mechanic etc

You should only be dealing with an actual postal NtH in your own name, sent to you by the private parking company, treated as a Notice to Hirer, which should have included a copy of the agreement too

We would hope that YOU as hirer have not revealed who was driving ?

If you have NO NtH in your own name, then you shouldn't be replying to anyone, your company remains possibly liable unless they comply with POFA 2012 , plus the bvrla memorandum of understanding too, if they are a member of the bvrla. , so are they. ?

Lastly, who is the parking company. ? And has everyone complied with POFA. ?

Thanks Gr1pr. As in my rely to KeithP, I am neither hirer nor keeper. I have a good relationship with my small company, so I don't really want to annoy them with fines resulting from when the car is under my stewardship.
They asked me what to do with the fine and I said that I thought they had to nominate me. I didn't know at the time that they should have done that using specific language. I'm sure they would have done so if I'd given them the wording.
But the result is, they have nominated me as "driver". As I said earlier, they may be happy to retract that in writing if I ask them. Is it worth doing that?

The PPC is Parking Control Management. I'm not sure if they have complied with POFA to my company as the RK, as I think that letter has now been binned.
I can attach a redacted "Notice to Driver/Hirer" letter when I get home if that helps?

If possible, I really don't want to go down the road of making my company liable for anything as they have been good to me.

Thanks for your help.

PCNonymous

Gr1pr said:

Then they are the registered keeper and you may well be named on the insurance policy, so you appear to be a company employee driving a company vehicle , not the Registered Keeper. ( You do not have a V5C with your details on it. )

So start again 

The important questions are , did the RK company name you to the private parking company. ? If yes, using What exact designation. ? Hirer ? , Keeper. ? , hirer. ?  Lessee. ?  Or Driver. ?

If yes, did you receive a parking charge notice from the parking company with your own name and address on it. ?  Yes or no. ?

Yes I have received a PCN from PCM with my name and the address where I currently reside. However, this is not my DVLA registered address, which is also nearby and where I also reside from time to time (it's complicated! but just in case that helps understand any legalities).

Gr1pr

You are neither hirer or Registered Keeper, not in the usual sense, but if you are driving the vehicle then you are definitely a keeper, a day to day keeper. !

So you have been nominated as driver, in writing , by the Registered Keeper 

If you have that new PCN in your own name and address, I suggest that you post redacted pictures of both sides of it tonight, meaning that the original NTK PCN letter isn't needed, plus POFA may be going into the nearest bin 

You may need to be defending this as a nominated driver 

PCNonymous

Fruitcake said:

As above, which PPC issued the charge.

Have you received a NTH or a NTD from the PPC? If you have, irrespective of how it is addressed, appeal as hirer/lessee using the relevant edna basher letters you will find in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES. 
If you were not the driver, then say so, otherwise say nothing.

Note that loading/unloading is not parking as determined in the appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard.
Also note that the signs are prohibitive. A driver cannot agree to terms and conditions that prohibit stopping.

Thanks Fruitcake.
PPC is PCM.
Unfortunately, the Edna Basher letters don't apply as there is no hire/lease agreement (see reply to KeithP).
In this case, is there a standard reply after being nominated (possibly incorrectly) as driver?
Or do I need the RK to retract their statement that I was "driver" as this was just an assumption?

Coupon-mad

It's not a fine.  Don't call it that.

Unfortunately, the Edna Basher letters don't apply as there is no hire/lease agreement (see reply to KeithP).

Errrrm but you aren't telling them that...why on earth would you tell ex-clamper scum that?  You realise PCM were outed on Watchdog?