Trying to understand some Lebara T&Cs

TMSG

The two following statements come fresh from https://www.lebara.co.uk/en/terms-and-conditions.html  and I am not sure I understand them when taken together.

#60 does seem to mean that I have to have a chargeable activity every 90 days and if not I lose my top-up credit or balance.

#61 gives me 180 days to request a refund but if the credit has gone already after 90 days... how can I ask for a refund?

So I do understand those two statement when read separately but together I just don't. Puzzled.

60. If you do not use the Pre-Pay Services to carry out at least one chargeable activity ( make a call, send a text or use data) with your Lebara SIM for a consecutive period of 90 days, you will lose any top up credit or outstanding balance remaining. To continue using our services, you will need to make a top up or add a plan online or with a voucher in-store. 

61. You can request for a refund for up to 180 days from the last chargeable activity ( call, texts or data usage) made with your Lebara SIM as shown on your Account.

Neil_Jones

Seems pretty clear to me.

If you don't use it for 90 days you lose the lot.

I think the key phrase is "up to" 180 days it doesn't say "a refund for [the last] 180 days" or similar.

Also take note of the following clause, number 62 - " If your do not use the Pre-Pay services to make at least one chargeable event for a further consecutive period of 365 days, this agreement will be deemed terminated by you, the service will be disconnected and the SIM will no longer be available for further use. "

PHK

There is no contradiction. When you pay cash* you are buying credit. If you don’t use the service then the credit is removed from the account. But if you apply to them they will refund the cash* equivalent to the credit to you.
 

*By cash, I mean whatever payment method you used. 

TMSG

Thanks guys for the answers, I appreciate it.

So... if I understand @Neil_Jones and @PHK correctly, after 90 days of non-activity any top-up credit/balance is removed from the account but "stored" in a sort of limbo for another 90 days... during which I can ask for it to be refunded to my original payment method... and presumably then put it back to the account?

Why do they do it like that? What's the point? I'm not really understanding the reasoning/rationale behind this way of doing things.

Re #62, we already had a Lebara SIM disconnected a couple years ago so I know that part of the equation.

PHK

It’s not stored in limbo. 

I think you’ve confused the *cash you’ve used to buy the prepay credit with the credit itself. 

The *cash and the credit are two different things. 

You exchange the money for prepaid credit. If you don’t use it then you lose it. But if you apply to them they will pay you back the *cash equivalent of the prepay credit. 

TMSG

@PHK Hm... apparently I didn't (and don't) understand how all this works. I can just take your word for it. The sequence as I now understand it is that I pay £5 *cash to Lebara. They use this to fund £5 prepay credit. After 90 days of non-activity the prepay credit is reset to 0 so I can't call or text etc. But as they still have my £5 I can ask for (and hopefully get) a refund within another 90 days... though it appears I can't tell 'em to just apply the £5 to the account. So once I have the refund I can re-add £5 to my account which gets credited to my prepay credit... back to square one.

The question remains... why are they doing it this way?

JSmithy45AD

TMSG said:

@PHK Hm... apparently I didn't (and don't) understand how all this works. I can just take your word for it. The sequence as I now understand it is that I pay £5 *cash to Lebara. They use this to fund £5 prepay credit. After 90 days of non-activity the prepay credit is reset to 0 so I can't call or text etc. But as they still have my £5 I can ask for (and hopefully get) a refund within another 90 days... though it appears I can't tell 'em to just apply the £5 to the account. So once I have the refund I can re-add £5 to my account which gets credited to my prepay credit... back to square one.

The question remains... why are they doing it this way?

They're not.

If you don't use any chargeable services within the 90 day period it's gone, never to return.

The 180 days for a refund is if you've continued using the service but have built up a credit or if they've overcharged for something.

TMSG

JSmithy45AD said:

TMSG said:

@PHK Hm... apparently I didn't (and don't) understand how all this works. I can just take your word for it. The sequence as I now understand it is that I pay £5 *cash to Lebara. They use this to fund £5 prepay credit. After 90 days of non-activity the prepay credit is reset to 0 so I can't call or text etc. But as they still have my £5 I can ask for (and hopefully get) a refund within another 90 days... though it appears I can't tell 'em to just apply the £5 to the account. So once I have the refund I can re-add £5 to my account which gets credited to my prepay credit... back to square one.

The question remains... why are they doing it this way?

They're not.

If you don't use any chargeable services within the 90 day period it's gone, never to return.

The 180 days for a refund is if you've continued using the service but have built up a credit or if they've overcharged for something.

No, that can't be true either because #61 says explicitly that "You can request for a refund for up to 180 days from the last chargeable activity" and #60 says "If you do not use the Pre-Pay Services to carry out at least one chargeable activity ( make a call, send a text or use data) with your Lebara SIM for a consecutive period of 90 days, you will lose any top up credit or outstanding balance remaining."

90 days is less than 180 days, so first the credit disappears and then I can ask for a refund?

I think I will just give up on this and stop using Lebara. It seems I am just too stupid for that.

PHK

The bit your missing is that when you lose the top-up credit the account is closed. You won't be able to make or receive calls. 

TMSG

PHK said:

The bit your missing is that when you lose the top-up credit the account is closed. You won't be able to make or receive calls. 

If that's the case then #61 doesn't make any sense at all as no one can have an account open after 90 days w/o activity. So if the account is closed after 90 days, no one can ask for a refund after 180 days.

Also, the above quoted post contradicts nicely what you wrote earlier.

I'll leave this whole question at that. Lebara will just lose a customer and I'm sure both they and I will survive that :-)

PHK

It doesn’t contradict it. The account can be closed but you can still request the money be returned. 

Lebrara aren’t unique in this respect, it’s been like this for most providers (with variations of the time ) for as long as I can remember.