Whos liable to pay Utility bills for squatters

Hoenir

Liability will be with estate of your late father. 

theartfullodger

They had entirely legal tenancy/lodger agreements - verbal, which if England entirely legal. Not illegal squatters, they had permission to be there.

Did dad's lodger/tenancy agreements (verbal, legal) include utility bills please?  That will tell you who is liable.

Has dad been declaring ALL the rental income to HMRC please? HMRC get upset about those who don't (IMHO quite rightly).

loubel

Who was the executor of uncle's estate?

BoxCarJay

So while my father was living there, the rent money they would pay him would include any bills. I've just found out that until my father left the property 2 years ago, that all accounts were in his name. 

He did not report to HMRC or pay tax. We've had quite the trouble getting the last of the lodgers out of the property I believe because of this. I do agree with you entirely that not reporting it is wrong and this is why we have an issue with the way he has done things. We are hoping that the utilities will be his responsibility to pay, atleast until probate was granted last year anywaytheartfullodger said:

They had entirely legal tenancy/lodger agreements - verbal, which if England entirely legal. Not illegal squatters, they had permission to be there.

Did dad's lodger/tenancy agreements (verbal, legal) include utility bills please?  That will tell you who is liable.

Has dad been declaring ALL the rental income to HMRC please? HMRC get upset about those who don't (IMHO quite rightly).

BoxCarJay

loubel said:

Who was the executor of uncle's estate?

My sister 

BoxCarJay

user1977 said:

BoxCarJay said:

We've been trying to remove the lodgers/squatters/tenants since he left. But as there was no tenancy agreement we couldn't serve eviction notices or section 28s as no official paper work had ever been drawn up. We also had no keys or access to the property until 2 weeks ago.

gwynlas said:

Your father would have been liable as he was living there and using the utilities plus getting payment from lodgers. If you knew he moved out 2 years ago why has it taen so long to address the issue of squatters. I think the utility company would still hold your father or yourself liable for bills in allowing ex lodgers to remain in residence. The procedure when your father  was due to leave would be to give notice and change the locks.

Who told you that there needed to be "official paperwork" for a tenancy in order to evict someone? You don't need to have keys or access to the property either (as obviously in many cases the landlords would need to evict the occupiers first).

So for full context and this is my understanding of the situation (it may be wrong in parts)

My father was taking cash in hand rent payments from these tenants after my uncles death. He would pay the utility bills from this and has accounts in his name. Everyone staying there had verbal agreements with my father about living there. He did not declare these rent payments to pay tax on them.

One ex disgruntled tenant reported his actions to the local council. Who threatened to fine my father. At this point he moved out to live with his aging mother as her carer. 

The tenants he got in while living there refused to leave when he did. So rent payments and utility bills payments also stopped at this point. 

Over the last couple of years all but 1 person left. We requested they move out in September of 2023 and gave them a 2 month window to do this. The letter was sent by our solicitor. 

They didn't move out because they couldn't afford it. However they offered to go onto the council housing list. The council needed a section 28 (?) notice to show the person living there was going to be homeless. However you can only get this form as a registered landlord but we never were this person's landlord. My father also never registered so we don't have this paper work and can't get it as far as we can tell? 

We contacted the police but we've had very little cooperation from them. I don't know the full details unfortunately as my brother dealt with that. 

We also had no keys to the property as the only remaining set was with this tenant. 

They have now thankfully left the property after finding somewhere else to go. This leads us to where we are now...wondering who has the legal responsibility to pay the utility bills that were accumulated by the people living there after my father moved out and closed his utility bills accounts. 

Him - as the person who got the tenants in in the first place. Even though the accounts were no longer in his name

The tenants - who we have no evidence ever loved there or contact details/forwarding addresses

Or us - the new owners of the estate

BoxCarJay

Also to add one final detail. The reason we didn't do anything about the squatters during this 2 year period until September last year:

Our father was trying to contest my uncles will as he wasn't left anything. This meant probate couldn't be granted during this legal "battle" and we had no legal rights as we weren't yet owners of the property

theartfullodger

Suspect this was either an unlicensed HMO or a HMO (that didn't need license - depends on council).

Either way there could be action over rent repayment order such that dad has to pay back all the rent.....

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/private_sector_enforcement/rent_repayment_orders

Beware....

ThisIsWeird

Hi BCJ.
No-one paid utility bills for 2 years, and the supplies weren't cut off? Do you know who the energy providers were? Who do they have as the named account holder - any chance a lodger changed that to their name so as to keep the supply going? That would be a good outcome, I think.
No mass of red 'final demands' on the mat? Any bills at all? 
If the accounts name are still your uncle's, then I suspect the estate will owe this. If in your dad's, then likely his, tho' perhaps any bills over the past two years could be challenged, if you explain the house was squatted over this time, and they kept the supplies going even tho' no-one was paying the bills (tho' he'd likely be liable for standing charges).
In short, I have no idea...

newsgroupmonkey_

theartfullodger said:

Suspect this was either an unlicensed HMO or a HMO (that didn't need license - depends on council).

Either way there could be action over rent repayment order such that dad has to pay back all the rent.....

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/private_sector_enforcement/rent_repayment_orders

Beware....

Dad is dead. So his estate would be liable. But surely, once probate is granted and the estate wound up, then this would be a pointless effort chasing up a non-existent estate?