PCN UKPC KFC

AsphodelMagic7

Hi all. I've been lurking in the forum reading various threads and other people's experiences which has given me some slight hope that you all can help me with this PCN.

I parked twice at a retail park in October 2023 a few days apart to visit McDonalds before university. The car park in question was almost directly opposite the McDonalds entrance so I assumed since I would be a customer I was good to park. Little did I know this was a car park specifically for KFC which was apparently not open at the time - there were others parked there if I remember correctly so again I assumed this was fine. I received PCN from UKPC for both of these visits along with their classic bullying strategies over the months as I had tried to reason with them but resorted to ignoring as they refused to budge.

It's now got to the point where they have submitted a claim form for county court which I have logged on and acknowledged to give me time to write up my defence. I wanted to get some advice on what to write for this - I'm a working, mature student and barely earn enough to cover my bills so don't have the kind of money they are demanding (and do not deserve). Since October they have harassed me to no end over these 2 charges, employing different companies to bully me (debt collection and solicitors) for the 2 separate parking events which had a massive impact on my mental health and ability to cope with day to day living. I told them this and although they backed off for a very short time, they continued to push me soon enough. How on earth are they still allowed to do things like this?

My argument for where I parked was that there was no notice saying the area was for KFC customers specifically and that the signage was not adequate at the time. The standard parking sign was high up on a lamp post which you're not going to be able to read before you drive in as the writing is tiny and I assumed the rules were the usual don't park for too long, don't park and leave the site etc. In addition, there is also a metal barrier that can swing closed to block the car park - why is this not used to prevent people parking when they are unwanted? To trap people and charge obscene amounts of money for 'damages'?? 

I also wanted advice on how to find out if the parking company requesting money is actually allowed to do this? I read somewhere on the forum that they don't always have the right to do this as they do not own the land?

Apologies for the long post, it's been a long 9 months of pure stress and poor health so I've got quite touchy about the subject. 

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with personal detail hidden of course.

Where exactly did this alleged parking event take place? Has it perhaps featured on this forum before?

AsphodelMagic7

Hi KeithP, thanks for the reply!

I have only just done the acknowledge of service tonight. I've had a few things going on including sickness and also avoidance because of bad anxiety. I know I probably should have done it sooner...

It's at great homer street retail park in Liverpool

[Image removed by Forum Team]

Gr1pr

The PCNs are invoices from UKPC, for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property, anybody can chase up payment for unpaid invoices, hence all the letters 

If UKPC have a valid contract with the retailer or retail park management team, they can try to enforce the invoices in civil court 

Landowner authority must flow down the chain , so landowner to parking company, if necessary via a third party, so one or more contracts in place, and in force 

I suggest that you start on your defence, using the defence template 

As research, study the Joe Lycett parking scam by MET Parking 

AsphodelMagic7

Gr1pr said:

The PCNs are invoices from UKPC, for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property, anybody can chase up payment for unpaid invoices, hence all the letters 

If UKPC have a valid contract with the retailer or retail park management team, they can try to enforce the invoices in civil court 

Landowner authority must flow down the chain ,vso landowner to parking company, if necessary via a third party, so one or more contracts in place, and in force 

I suggest that you start on your defence, using the defence template 

As research, study the Joe Lycett parking scam by MET Parking 

Thanks, I am starting my defence with the template now (just a little overwhelmed with the legal language ha)

I was wanting to try and find out if they do actually have a valid contract with the retailer - any ideas on how to find that out? I have tried googling but no luck. I can't even find details for the retail park management to contact them about the situation.

KeithP

AsphodelMagic7 said:

I have only just done the acknowledge of service tonight. I've had a few things going on including sickness and also avoidance because of bad anxiety. I know I probably should have done it sooner...

You are certainly not late in filing an Acknowledgment of Service. No need to worry about that.

With a Claim Issue Date of 17th June, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 22nd July 2024 to file a Defence.

That's nearly three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Coupon-mad

Your paragraph 3 should state that:

The Defendant recalls visiting this mixed retail site as a patron of one of the two adjacent restaurants and used an unmarked bay between the two. It was evening in late October and the car park areas were dark. However, the restaurants were lit and appeared to be open and indeed, the Defendant used one of them. The Defendant denies parking 'out of hours' and denies liability for either an agreed contract or a breach of a relevant obligation, not least because no signs were seen (being neither prominent nor lit) and no contractual term is pleaded in the POC. 'No parking out of hours' is a prohibition, not a contractual offer. The car park entrance has a yellow barrier which was up and there was no delineation or colours to indicate any difference between the bays. The area has the appearance of a single retail park with various unmarked bays and no signs are visible in hours of darkness. No contract was capable of being agreed and the fact that the Defendant returned a few days later reinforces the Defendant's position: nobody would agree to pay £100 a time to visit McDonalds or KFC and the Defendant had no idea they would be charged an extortionate sum in PCNs and imaginary 'damages'.

Gr1pr

AsphodelMagic7 said:

Gr1pr said:

The PCNs are invoices from UKPC, for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property, anybody can chase up payment for unpaid invoices, hence all the letters 

If UKPC have a valid contract with the retailer or retail park management team, they can try to enforce the invoices in civil court 

Landowner authority must flow down the chain ,vso landowner to parking company, if necessary via a third party, so one or more contracts in place, and in force 

I suggest that you start on your defence, using the defence template 

As research, study the Joe Lycett parking scam by MET Parking 

1) I was wanting to try and find out if they do actually have a valid contract with the retailer - any ideas on how to find that out? I have tried googling but no luck.

2) I can't even find details for the retail park management to contact them about the situation.

1) curiosity killed the cat !  You are extremely unlikely to find that out until the WS stage in several months time, because at the moment you have no way of obtaining a copy or seeing a copy. It will likely be 2025 before you get sight of it 

2) you should be able to find out the details for the management company who run the retail park on behalf of the landowner, all these retail parks employ them to deal with tenancies and the day to day running of the site 

Is the landowner Greenridge. ? Or maybe ask St Modwen. ?

On GSV its clear that the 2 sections are operated by UKPC, but with different coloured signs, blue/white and red/white , so different terms and conditions too