Trickle vents

rubble2

A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

To be honest, it wouldnt bother me either way except that at the same time we had a new composite door fitted to the enclosed porch. The porch area was originally open but in common with many of the houses on our estate these have subsequently been enclosed with DG windows so the the original front door now opens into the porch and the porch door opens to the outside world. Because the original front door creates a good airtight seal and the new composite door is similarly airtight it has become quite difficult to get the new porch open from the outside due to the effect of compressing the air contained in the now airtight porch area.

It was actually due to this problem that we first noticed the lack of trickle vents in the new porch window as leaving the trickle vent open would allow the air pressure to be relieved when opening the porch door. We have got round this by leaving the opening window in the porch on the 'first latch' to allow the air pressure to dissipate.

So my questions (finally) should there be a trickle vent fitted? and if not is it possible to retrofit one? 

thanks

FreeBear

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

BarelySentientAI

FreeBear said:

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

Some also interpret it to imply that windows that can lock on a slightly-open setting fulfil this requirement.  That's what mine do - they lock (properly, with the key and so the handle doesn't work) ajar but still within the return of the frame.

Not sure how good that is for physical security against prying etc.

Eldi_Dos

@rubble2
Does the first door to the porch have a letterbox?  If so can you not just open that before opening door as that should equalize pressure.

FreeBear

BarelySentientAI said:

FreeBear said:

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

Some also interpret it to imply that windows that can lock on a slightly-open setting fulfil this requirement.  That's what mine do - they lock (properly, with the key and so the handle doesn't work) ajar but still within the return of the frame.

Pretty sure that the regs have a paragraph that covers this. And it isn't classed as background ventilation.

Lorian

The new door opens outwards? Flap on the inside of the letterbox?

rubble2

Thanks for all the replies, we are currently doing as BarelySentientAI suggests and have the opener in the porch locked in the 'barely open' position to allow airflow but I think I would be happier with an actual trickle vent fitted so will look further into this option.

silvercar

BarelySentientAI said:

FreeBear said:

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

Some also interpret it to imply that windows that can lock on a slightly-open setting fulfil this requirement.  That's what mine do - they lock (properly, with the key and so the handle doesn't work) ajar but still within the return of the frame.

Not sure how good that is for physical security against prying etc.

I’d be worried about the possibility of the window being jammied, if there is enough of a gap so that something could be used to lever the window open. I do this on my utility room window, but the opening window is so small no one could climb through. I wouldn’t do it on a larger window or one where there are other opening windows that could be accessed from the jammied window.

FreeBear

FreeBear said:

BarelySentientAI said:

FreeBear said:

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

Some also interpret it to imply that windows that can lock on a slightly-open setting fulfil this requirement.  That's what mine do - they lock (properly, with the key and so the handle doesn't work) ajar but still within the return of the frame.

Pretty sure that the regs have a paragraph that covers this. And it isn't classed as background ventilation.

Building Regulations 2010 Approved Document F Volume 1, 2021 edition 15F1(1), paragraph 1.52

NOTE: A window with a night latch position is not adequate for background ventilation, due to the following.
a. The risk of draughts.
b. Security issues.

c. The difficulty of measuring the equivalent area.

Also worth pointing out that if you have a MVHR system, the regs specifically advise against having trickle vents as they could "short circuit" the heat recovery.

Albermarle

FreeBear said:

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

Regarding the comment in bold.
Have you any idea how many domestic houses actually have one of these fitted? The MVHR seems to be more suited to larger buildings.
Also I have kind of assumed even the simpler/cheaper PIV was very much a niche product and only a tiny % of UK homes would have one, but I could be quite wrong !

FreeBear

Albermarle said:

FreeBear said:

rubble2 said: A couple of questions about the above if anyone can shed any light please.
We recently had some Upvc windows replaced at the front of our house, the old windows all had trickle vents fitted and I assumed that the replacements would be the same.

The new windows fitted to the bedroom and the en-suite have trickle vents as expected but the windows fitted to the livingroom and to the enclosed porch have no vents. In all of the locations where the frames were replaced there are opening windows so that cannot be the deciding factor regards whether vents are fitted or not.

I thought that all new windows must have trickle vents as standard, can anyone confirm if that is the case or not please?

If the old windows had trickle vents, any replacement should also have them. Current building regulations mandate background ventilation in all habitable rooms - Some installation companies interpret this as "must have trickle vents" and ignore the fact that there are alternative ways of providing background ventilation. So if you have a MVHR or PIV system, you may not need trickle vents.

On the windows that had trickle vents originally, if you really want some, they can be retrofitted to the new windows. Give the installation company a call, and they can come out and do the job fairly quickly - It is just a case of drilling a few holes through the frame and fitting the two parts of the vents on either side.

Regarding the comment in bold.
Have you any idea how many domestic houses actually have one of these fitted? The MVHR seems to be more suited to larger buildings.
Also I have kind of assumed even the simpler/cheaper PIV was very much a niche product and only a tiny % of UK homes would have one, but I could be quite wrong !

Exact figures for the number of domestic properties, not a clue. But heat recovery is part of the PassivHaus philosophy, and a growing number of people are embracing the ideas. It is certainly possible to get small systems aimed at typical sized homes - Expensive though.

PIV systems, being cheaper to purchase & install, are pushed as a solution to condensation & mould. Again, no idea of installation numbers. Not sure I would class them as a niche product either, although opinions differ (and I'm not going to argue the point).