Airbnb host claim for damages

akkers

We stayed in an apartment through airbnb in an European (non EU) country. After we left the host has put in a claim for a large amount for alleged damages. We obviously did not cause the large damages which appear to be made up. The other small things like cleaning etc are exaggerated. We have contested this with Airbnb. 

What rights do we have? Can Airbnb enforce the claim? How do we prove anything sitting in the uk?
any help will be appreciated. Thanks 

Aylesbury_Duck

Airbnb's UK terms (if that's the company you booked through) say this:

You’ll be given the opportunity to voluntarily submit a timely payment or an appeal. If you don’t submit a timely payment or appeal, or your appeal is unsuccessful, your payment method will be charged. (This doesn’t apply to stays in China, Japan or India.) You’ll never be charged without advance notice or a chance to appeal before and after you’ve been charged. You’ll have 60 days to appeal after you’ve been charged.

Unless you took time-stamped photos of the apartment before you left, you won't be able to prove anything, so it'll be down to Airbnb's view on the evidence the host has submitted.  Presumably if they don't find in your favour you're into small claims court territory.

DullGreyGuy

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Unless you took time-stamped photos of the apartment before you left, you won't be able to prove anything

Yeah, timestamped photos are really important... like the one I took above at just after midnight in London

Ultimately both parties will submit whatever evidence they have and AirBnB will adjudicate. timestamping is easily faked so dont put any importance on it. 

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Presumably if they don't find in your favour you're into small claims court territory.

Who are the contracting parties with AirBnB? Which legal jurisdiction governs the contract?

Almost certainly it's a contract between you and the property owner so at best a small track court process results you trying to enforce the judgement against someone thats outside both the UK and EU. Worst case the legal system of the country of the property takes precedence and so you are trying to navigate their system as a foreigner in their language and they may not have an equivalent of small track

Aylesbury_Duck

DullGreyGuy said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Unless you took time-stamped photos of the apartment before you left, you won't be able to prove anything

Yeah, timestamped photos are really important... like the one I took above at just after midnight in London

   

That's not quite the time-stamping I meant.  I think there's a way of time-stamping a photo using metadata or whatever it's called, the data that sits in the file, rather than just adding a typed date and time to the image itself.  I suspect even that can be amended, but this isn't a murder case.

DullGreyGuy

Aylesbury_Duck said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Unless you took time-stamped photos of the apartment before you left, you won't be able to prove anything

Yeah, timestamped photos are really important... like the one I took above at just after midnight in London

   

That's not quite the time-stamping I meant.  I think there's a way of time-stamping a photo using metadata or whatever it's called, the data that sits in the file, rather than just adding a typed date and time to the image itself.  I suspect even that can be amended, but this isn't a murder case.

There is the Exif meta data but it just takes the date/time set on the device taking the picture which obviously can be set by the person taking the photo. Even if you forget to change the clock before taking the photo it's easy to edit after taking the photo and many photo editing techniques strip the exif data.

The other frequent suggestion is to take the photo with today's paper in it but that only proves the earliest it could have been taken (useful for the OP when leaving) but clearly you could make a photo look older by getting last week's paper which the owner could have done if their mates trashed the place a few days after the OP left. 


Its not a murder case but people do dig and argue... full disclosure, did insurance claims for too many years (third party not policyholders) and many have no qualms about making false claims (favourite was a gold bracelet damaged in an RTA... they sent an evaluation report saying it was worth £20k and couldn't be repaired. Asked for the item to be sent in and it looked like junk and felt much lighter than the evaluation report stated (didnt have scales in the office) so sent it to our jewellery people, came back with a page from the Argos catalogue where the same item was still for sale for £30 - 9ct gold plate, not the 22ct solid gold claimed)

akkers

I have also been told it is a contract between guest and airbnb. Therefore Airbnb can take guest to county court here in the uk. Is this correct?

Alderbank

akkers said:

I have also been told it is a contract between guest and airbnb. Therefore Airbnb can take guest to county court here in the uk. Is this correct?

No it's not.

Airbnb T&Cs for UK users are clear:
As the provider of the Airbnb Platform, Airbnb does not own, control, offer or manage any Listings, Host Services, or tourism services. Airbnb is not a party to the contracts entered into directly between Hosts and Guests.

https://www.airbnb.co.uk/help/article/2908#EUTOS

The host (or anyone else) can make a claim against a guest here in the county court provided the claimant has a UK address.

DullGreyGuy

akkers said:

I have also been told it is a contract between guest and airbnb. Therefore Airbnb can take guest to county court here in the uk. Is this correct?

Suggest you dont trust whoever told you again, their terms are very clear that the contract for the booking is directly between you and the "host"..

When Members make or accept a booking, they are entering into a contract directly with each other. Airbnb is not and does not become a party to or other participant in any contractual relationship between Members. Airbnb is not acting as an agent for any Member except for where Airbnb Payments acts as a collection agent as provided in the Payments Terms. 

Can't actually see which legal jurisdiction applies... if you are making a claim against AirBnB itself for something then that is either your residence or Irish but it doesn't appear to cover for a claim against the Host. 

pdel61

You must have some sort of contract with AirBnb though otherwise they have no right in acting as judge and jury and taking money out of your account without authorisation.

Alderbank

pdel61 said:

You must have some sort of contract with AirBnb though otherwise they have no right in acting as judge and jury and taking money out of your account without authorisation.

You do have a contract with Airbnb. 

There are two separate contracts, one with Airbnb and one with the host. Airbnb's contractual duties are administrative - providing accurate information on the website, passing your payment and booking request to the host, facilitating communication between you and the host, etc.

All explained in their T&Cs.

akkers

So if it goes to Airbnb dispute resolution and you don’t agree then the host has to take legal action themselves? Or can Airbnb take legal action on behalf the host?