Canon Camera refusing refund on defective goods due to lack of original packaging

jim30

Hi 
Last week (Tue) I purchased a Canon digital camera and separate lens from the Canon website. It was paid for on my Amex. Lens cost was approx £350.

I used the lens for first time on Saturday and discovered that it was defective due to a manufacturing error. I had unfortunately put the original packaging in recylcing at this point.

I rang Canon this morning, at earliest opportunity to advise them that I have a faulty product and requested a replacement as I would like that type of lens. 

The Canon helpline have advised me that they only do refunds and not replacements and as I don't have the original packaging they may not be able to accept a return or issue a refund for a faulty good. I have told them that I am legally entitled to a refund under consumer protection laws, but they refused to budge and have said that I will get a formal answer this week. 

Assuming they refuse the refund, what are my options given this is a faulty good, identified within 7 days of delivery that I am refusing it and wish a refund/replacement? 

Do I have any ability to compel them to refund it or is it easiest for me to go to Amex and open a dispute, and in turn report them to trading standards? 

Any steers on my legal position here gratefully received!

Zinger549

Are they based in the UK?

jim30

Zinger549 said:

Are they based in the UK?

Yes - UK company ordered via UK website.

Hoenir

jim30 said:

The Canon helpline have advised me that they only do refunds and not replacements and as I don't have the original packaging they may not be able to accept a return or issue a refund for a faulty good.

"Please read these Terms of Sale carefully before ordering any Products from our site. By placing an order, you are agreeing to these Terms of Sale.If you do not agree to these terms and conditions you must not order anything through our site."

Undervalued

jim30 said:

Hi 
Last week (Tue) I purchased a Canon digital camera and separate lens from the Canon website. It was paid for on my Amex. Lens cost was approx £350.

I used the lens for first time on Saturday and discovered that it was defective due to a manufacturing error. I had unfortunately put the original packaging in recylcing at this point.

I rang Canon this morning, at earliest opportunity to advise them that I have a faulty product and requested a replacement as I would like that type of lens. 

The Canon helpline have advised me that they only do refunds and not replacements and as I don't have the original packaging they may not be able to accept a return or issue a refund for a faulty good. I have told them that I am legally entitled to a refund under consumer protection laws, but they refused to budge and have said that I will get a formal answer this week. 

Assuming they refuse the refund, what are my options given this is a faulty good, identified within 7 days of delivery that I am refusing it and wish a refund/replacement? 

Do I have any ability to compel them to refund it or is it easiest for me to go to Amex and open a dispute, and in turn report them to trading standards? 

Any steers on my legal position here gratefully received!

You are correct in this respect providing the item is actually faulty.

However by disposing of the packaging you may well have invalidated any additional benefits offered by their warranty. Also if the item is not actually faulty any "change of mind" refund could be reduced to take account of the reduction in value.

Many years ago the was (allegedly) a problem with a batch of very expensive Canon lenses (c. £2.5k) and a number of keen and in many cases professional photographers sent them back. All were returned to the buyers as "no fault found" but amazingly then worked perfectly! Various theories about what was going on.....

What is the problem with your lens? I assume it was bought for personal use and not business?

DullGreyGuy

jim30 said:

I used the lens for first time on Saturday and discovered that it was defective due to a manufacturing error. 

What is the fault with the lens?

Assuming it is faulty you can exercise your short term right to reject under the consumer rights act and having packaging or not is irrelevant to that... though you do need to pack it appropriately for the return trip to them. 

If it weren't faulty but just didnt operate how you expected then that would be a different matter as it's a consumer error in which case returning without packaging is much more problematic. 

jim30

Hi

Thanks all. The lens is physically faulty - the lens appears to have some kind of fault which is preventing light getting through properly, so is unable to take photos properly - essentially rather than a clear lens, there is a disc inside that means it doesn't get any light through. (Image below)

Its unable to do the job it was purchased for rather than my changing my mind about the lens.

I asked on the Canon Forums with images of the lens if there was a fault with it and the assessment of the Canon community leads was that it was a faulty lens that required replacement. 

eskbanker

Hoenir said:

jim30 said:

The Canon helpline have advised me that they only do refunds and not replacements and as I don't have the original packaging they may not be able to accept a return or issue a refund for a faulty good.

"Please read these Terms of Sale carefully before ordering any Products from our site. By placing an order, you are agreeing to these Terms of Sale.If you do not agree to these terms and conditions you must not order anything through our site."

But such terms can't override statutory rights, so even if they make any specific reference to faulty goods needing to be returned in original packaging, that wouldn't be legally enforceable.

CardinalWolsey

Could you afford to order another one, and then return the faulty one for a refund in your replacement's packaging?

Okell

@jim30 -  assuming the lens actually is faulty then within the first 30 days* after purchase you can exercise your short-term right to reject the faulty lens for a full refund.  It is not necessary to have the original packaging**.

The law is in s20(1) and s22 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)



*  The 30 day period is "paused" if you agree to a repair or replacement and only starts again once you get the repair or replacement back.

**  Do Canon fully understand that you are exercising your rights under the above legislation and that you are not trying to use their own returns policy which probably requires the original packaging?  You need to make it clear you are asserting your statutory rights under the above legislation.

Alderbank

Hoenir said:

jim30 said:

The Canon helpline have advised me that they only do refunds and not replacements and as I don't have the original packaging they may not be able to accept a return or issue a refund for a faulty good.

"Please read these Terms of Sale carefully before ordering any Products from our site. By placing an order, you are agreeing to these Terms of Sale.If you do not agree to these terms and conditions you must not order anything through our site."

Meaningless without quoting all those individual Terms of Sale as well. Without them it is an unfair contract term itself and can be ignored.

More usefully, Canon's Terms of Sale for lenses say:

18. APPLICABLE LAW AND JURISDICTION

18.1 These Terms of Sale are governed by English law. This means that a Contract for the purchase of Products made through our site and any dispute or claim arising out of or in connection with it will be governed by English law. If you are contracting as a consumer, the law of your country of residence will govern the above.

18.2 You and we both agree that the courts of England and Wales will have non-exclusive jurisdiction. If you are contracting as a consumer, you are entitled to bring proceedings before the courts of your domicile, in your country of residence, as applicable.

https://store.canon.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/