Best option for house purchase?

sarah.ef

Hi,

Me and my partner are buying our first house together. We have a newborn so are really looking for a house with potential and lots of space. For context, we are buying in Surbiton, which already comes with a bit of a premium, and can go to max £815k - though we would ideally love 800!  

We’ve found two properties we like, that are basically next door to each other and have started down the process of one of them based on the fact that our offer of £815 got accepted (I will call it property A). The other (property is on for 850k and is more “finished” and modern - the sellers invested in a refurb to the majority of the house and it’s in really good shape, however at £850 it’s above what we can afford so we’ve not put an offer down (yet). House B pics below. 

There isn’t much in it in terms of size and space between the two houses, they are both very similar, house B garden is slightly narrower and can be overlooked by people walking down the street since the house is sideways to the road, and a conservatory which we’d look to remove. The upstairs is on the smaller side. House A has a wider downstairs area and wider garden and enough room to build a great size summer house/office. The upstairs is a bit bigger than house B but the bathrooms need completely redoing (not urgently though).  

The dilemma we are having, is that we went to visit the house (I will call it property A) we have an offer accepted for, and brought along a window guy as my partner noticed a few of the windows are blown. The guy quoted us about £2,000 no more for the windows (there are several) to be redone, and also noticed some damp in the side of the kitchen wall. It’s an area of around 2 metres that we’d need to rip out and treat. The window guy said this wouldn’t cost anymore than £200 for both windows and damp. We also noticed about 15 tiles on the roof coming loose. Also the bathrooms need redoing but are livable for now. 

The house was built in the 1900s and the seller has done some work to it but it really needs more modernising than the other house. Photos attached. So with this damp and window situation, plus then adding new carpet around the house, and repainting it all, it’s going to cost more than the other which is pretty ready to move in. We also don’t love the fact that property A is access so has no obvious front door but an alley down the side in which you enter at the side of the house.  

The other issue is that we wanted to buy this house based on its potential to extend and build a roof conversion down the line when we can hopefully afford it. We are maxed out atm and definitely won’t have the money for at least 5 years. However, I found the planning permission for this house from 2023 and it was rejected. The owner wanted to build a double dormer roof conversion. We think that because you need to raise the roof pitch by 30cm, the council have complained that this isn’t in keeping with the pitch of the other roofs opposite and next door, and said it appeared vulgar and obtrusive. This is the vision my partner had for the roof, but now we are worried it might not be possible to do an extension at all - even if it’s a single dormer, as we’d still need to raise the pitch of the roof 30cm for it to work. House B has potential to do a loft conversion too, and the houses next door have done nice double dormer extensions. 

We are now having a few doubts about property A and are wondering whether it’s the right one after all. With a £28k stamp duty to pay and solicitor and survey fees, we can’t afford to do much work once we move in. We asked the agent if the seller could potentially go halves on this work but he basically said the seller has reduced the house for us by £15k so wouldn’t be happy about that. 

A few questions:

- which seems like the better option and most potential for our family? House A that is 815 and accepted offer but needs quite a bit of decorating work and damp + windows redoing + loft issue? or B that we haven’t yet offered on but probably won’t go down from 850 to 815. 
- is this damp realistically only going to cost under £2k? 

- should we be more worried about the missing roof tiles? 
- roof extension potential - is this a red flag for property A?
- should we negotiate with the seller to contribute to these costs or just suck it up? 

- should we offer 815k on property B just to see if its even an option, even though we’re about to start finding a solicitor / survey for property A? 

In general, we are pretty inexperienced buyers - my partner is a first time buyer and I have bought once before with my ex boyfriend but he did most of it! So any guidance is much appreciated. I have attached some photos. House B is the sideways on, more “modern” looking house for context. 

sarah.ef

P.S. I didn’t get a photo of the damp on the property A wall but it looked a bit like this 

WellKnownSid

- which seems like the better option and most potential for our family? House A that is 815 and accepted offer but needs quite a bit of decorating work and damp + windows redoing + loft issue? or B that we haven’t yet offered on but probably won’t go down from 850 to 815.

No-one on here will really know the answer to that.  You are talking about 125 year old houses, it is likely both will need work, the better more modern decor of house B might have been just a cover-up job to hide even more problems than A which isn't trying to hide them.  Or not.

If you cannot afford B and you are not willing to compromise by buying A - that may be a signal neither is right for you.

- is this damp realistically only going to cost under £2k? 

If there is a leak - you need to find the source, repair it and make good.  It doesn't sound a big job unless much larger issues are discovered.  Don't be driven to installing fancy damp-proofing, etc which probably won't really help.  Adequate ventilation may be all that is needed long term.

- should we be more worried about the missing roof tiles?

The vendor has not carried out basic maintenance.  Always a red flag.  But perhaps they'd set their heart on the loft conversion and were not planning to keep the roof.  Could be either.

- roof extension potential - is this a red flag for property A?

If you are dead set on this, then it sounds like it rules property A out because it is already too small and not possible to extend.  What is the property situation like in other streets - do you both get nose bleeds venturing into other areas or is that possible?

- should we negotiate with the seller to contribute to these costs or just suck it up? 

Trying to get the vendor to contribute towards £2,000 of improvements on an £800k house sounds a lot like horse-trading to me.  They may see that you're not serious and put the house back on the market.  These are 125 year old houses... you should be budgeting more than that just for essential maintenance each year.

- should we offer 815k on property B just to see if its even an option, even though we’re about to start finding a solicitor / survey for property A?

If you haven't instructed a solicitor yet, then the estate agent/vendor may get jumpy - especially if the local market is quite frothy.  Indecision could lose you both houses...

ThisIsWeird

In most respects, house A wins, as it's more spacious and has a larger garden with room for a summer house. 
The repairs that it requires can wait. That damp patch ain't gonna kill anyone (but find the cause, and sort it on that side - the cosmetics can wait). The misted windows ditto - you can live with that if you need to - it has no bearing on anything other than cosmetic.
The 'updating' required is ditto ditto, and can wait until you have the funds, and it'll all be done to your own personal taste. 
The missing roofs tiles ain't a problem provided water ain't coming in, and can therefore wait until you have the money for a loft conversion.
Ah...the loft conversion. There's the rub. That's a very pretty house, and dormers would look notveryniceatall. I completely understand Planning's previous decision, would concur, and suspect it won't change. So, if you need that future conversion, then I suspect you are stuffed. Also, a conversion which would also change the roof pitch - Ie, a completely new roof structure, would surely be very expensive.
I guess no way to convert just using skylights? Not big enough?

It appears that one house is too expensive - tho' no harm in trying a low bid - and the other, A, just not suitable due to a seemingly lack of loft potential. :-(
How essential is the loft?

Bigphil1474

We had the glass in our 3 windows in the attic replaced as they had blown - roughly 0.5 x 1.5m - cost me £400 from the local window guy. Having the glass replaced is fairly cheap. Although tbh, we'd live with them blown for about 10 years and only had them fixed as we were selling. 

We had the bay window wall done on the inside as we had some surface mould caused by condensation. I'd say roughly 3 square meters - the plasterer suggested improved insulation and skim over. Cost about £400 - no sign of any penetration damp etc. and we had the airbrick fixed.  As above, you need to establish why the damp patch, and if it is just ventilation then a simple re-plaster might be fairly cheap.  We often get a bit of condensation damp on our kitchen wall if we forget to put the extractor on in the winter. 

Personally, if I was spending over £800k on a house I'd not be impressed with either from your description, obviously aware you are living in La La land London where prices are crazy stupid. Did they have the property up at £830k, you offered £815k? If so, that doesn't mean anything. The £830k is the marketing price, and loads of houses round me have dropped their prices by 10% or more as sales are slow generally. Given your description, and tone of your post, I'd be going back and saying that given the works needed you can only now offer £800k, take it or leave it, and be prepared to walk. If the property is popular, you might lose it obviously. Personally, I'd maybe offer £810k on the other one (less than 5% reduction), and see if they'll negotiate from there. I'm not sure what the market is like in Surbiton, but around me it's definitely a buyers market. One of the houses we offered on months ago has sold for less than we offered and they turned us down - more than 10% less than the marketed price - was up at £350k, we offered £325k, and sold for £312k.

Just as a comparison on prices - we are hoping to move into our new house next month, and it is a 1960's 4 bed semi, internal garage conversion, modern kitchen extension,  with nice sized garden in a nice part of town, and we are paying £325k. London prices are mental. 

sarah.ef

Thanks everyone for your advice, I think the loft extension isn’t essential per say but it was our vision if we had the funds 5-10 years down the line, especially since we are paying so much for a house we would ideally want to add square footage and make some value out of it, though it’ll likely have gone up anyway by then. So it’s more a disappointing factor tbh as it means less potential to add to it, and we plan on having another child.

The windows seem fixable then after reading everyone’s thoughts, and I guess the only way we will find out what’s causing the damp is to do a survey. 

Interesting points in your comment @Bi@Bigphil1474 about the house prices - that’s crazy cheap! We were thinking could we negotiate or be prepared to walk away, and are both trying to remain fairly detached emotionally about the house. The seller has been trying to sell it since 2020, so it looks like he’s put it back on and taken it off a few times. He also originally listed it for £900k which is crazy imo. As far as we know, there haven’t been any other offers. He wants a quick sale and liked our position as current renters. 

@ThisIsWeird I hope you’re wrong about the roof extension potential it’s really impossible to tell without going through planning permission, we’ve been told there’s “always a solution - just comply with the council and tweak what you want to do” - trouble is we would always have to raise the roof by 30mm to make it viable, even with a single dormer. We’d just have to set it back to make it more discreet, and tbf the sellers original proposal of a large double dormer loft conversion was pretty epic. Plenty of houses on the road have done single dormer extensions and we have checked all the planning permission docs - only a few were rejected, these were all double dormer ones. 

ThisIsWeird

sarah.ef said:

@ThisIsWeird I hope you’re wrong about the roof extension potential it’s really impossible to tell without going through planning permission, we’ve been told there’s “always a solution - just comply with the council and tweak what you want to do” - trouble is we would always have to raise the roof by 30mm to make it viable, even with a single dormer. We’d just have to set it back to make it more discreet, and tbf the sellers original proposal of a large double dormer loft conversion was pretty epic. Plenty of houses on the road have done single dormer extensions and we have checked all the planning permission docs - only a few were rejected, these were all double dormer ones. 

Of course I could be wrong, and it was based on your description of the previous attempt. The neighbouring houses have their roof pitches going t'other way, with presumably their dormers facing their garden, so not detrimental to the 'street scene'?

What I would do is to find a local architect - ideally through recommendation via, say, a local Facebook page - and ask them. Most will be happy to give an informed opinion, or even come out for a half-hour gander. They should be able to say, "Chances are that something like this... *sketches on paper* - would be fine, but designs like XYZ not a chance.."

Obviously not writ in stone, but it'll give you a good idea of the potential.

WellKnownSid

sarah.ef said:

So it’s more a disappointing factor tbh as it means less potential to add to it, and we plan on having another child.

If the estate agent called today and told you House A was off the market because the vendor had taken a higher offer - how would you feel?

I think it's weighing up whether your disappointment over the reduced extension potential outweighs the disappointment of losing the house.

If you would feel "Meh, never mind" - then you know what's more important.  If you would be devastated - then house A is looking more promising regardless of the lower potential to extend

gwynlas

Have you considered many other houses? Looking at Rightmove there is a good semi in the same area that is cheaper. I am presuming that the other one in this street at £850k is the twin of the one you are looking at. I can see one with a side doemer and it does look really out of place so can understand planning reluctance. There are a couple of 4 beds listed near your price point but obviously slightly further away.

sarah.ef

@WellKnownSid yeah I think we’d be a little disappointed but not heart broken, just because of the roof extension issue which is the most exciting opportunity for us given we want yo be there for a while. 

@gwynlas we have looked at several other properties in the area. These were the largest square foot and in an area we know well and like, the houses closer to the river are out of budget and you don’t get as large a space for the money, and the houses further towards Tolworth are too far from where we want to be ie. Max 30 min walk to Surbiton station and the river. 

The £850k one is just on the other side of the road on the same side of the road, so its neighbour essentially. 

I think we will ask the seller if he can come down to 810 given the work we would need to do to repair the windows and see what he says. If he says no, maybe we just walk away without forking out on all the surveys etc, he’s been trying to get rid of it for 4 years now so I have a feeling he won’t mind £5 loss. But if he does, we could offer £810 on the other one as have been given a hint by the agent that this is a reasonable offer and might be accepted.

We still prefer the look of house A, but it might work out the more costly option and it’s by no means perfect (side access isn’t ideal, bathrooms need redoing, not as well maintained) 

Buying a house is such a stress! 

Albermarle

In the long run, I would go for more space over nicer fixtures and fittings.
House A has a wider downstairs area and wider garden and enough room to build a great size summer house/office. The upstairs is a bit bigger than house B 

Creating extra space by extending etc is very expensive nowadays, especially in the South East .