Ryanair Flight Moved Forward 4hr 45

Noelman105

I have an upcoming trip from London Stanstead to Perugia booked with Ryanair and they have moved both the outbound and inbound legs forward by 4 hours 45 minutes.

They have offered no refund and say I must either accept the change or fly the day before or after which I don’t want to do.

They say that they only offer a refund if the flight is moved by more than 5 hours.

Clearly they have advertised the flights at a premium time with every intention of moving them to first thing in the moving.

According to EU rule EC261 any flight moved forward by 1 hour or more is considered a cancellation. 

AMEX initially refunded the charges but it’s now in dispute.

Any Suggestions or advice?

Newbie_John

They may have not offered in their email but you are clearly eligible for refund - you would need to call them.

When is your flight? If in couple of days then you also may get compensation, if in few months then it's either refund or whatever they offer - another flight.

Noelman105

I have contacted them and they are refusing a refund as they say it’s less than the 5 hours stated in their terms and conditions.
the flight is more than 14 day but I don’t want compensation, just a refund of what I paid.

Newbie_John

Noelman105 said:

I have contacted them and they are refusing a refund as they say it’s less than the 5 hours stated in their terms and conditions.
the flight is more than 14 day but I don’t want compensation, just a refund of what I paid.

Hey, yeah just seen it. This is the thing that when you purchased it - you accepted these terms, so not much you can actually achieve. 
Whats your travel insurance like?

bagand96

Noelman105 said:

Clearly they have advertised the flights at a premium time with every intention of moving them to first thing in the moving.

You have no proof of that.  As frustrating as schedule changes are, they do happen for a variety of reasons. Ryanair have been particularly affected by Boeing's well documented problems resulting in them not being able to deliver aircraft on schedule.

You agreed to their T&C's when booking the flight, it's unlikely you'll be able to force them to refund you. 

Voyager2002

bagand96 said:

You agreed to their T&C's when booking the flight, it's unlikely you'll be able to force them to refund you. 

Their T and Cs cannot over-ride the law.

eskbanker

Noelman105 said:

According to EU rule EC261 any flight moved forward by 1 hour or more is considered a cancellation. 

I don't believe this to be the case - those regulations relate to flight delays and cancellations, not schedule adjustments, so a delay (on the day) of at least three hours is considered to be equivalent to a cancellation, for example.  Which specific clause are you seeking to rely on?

Noelman105

“A flight which has been brought forward by more than one hour is considered a cancelled flight. You have the same rights as in case of a flight cancellation.”

I get the feeling I’m not going to get a refund which is incredibly frustrating….but I’m still going to fight them and at least try.

mdann52

This is potentially correct for EU261 - see the Azurair case. This isn't statute law, but case law. The UK equivalent regulation (UK261) has a slight change in wording in this area however.

However, this judgement is a post-brexit judgement, so doesn't automatically apply to "UK261", and currently Lipton v BA CityFlyer is in court to decide on the framework of applying EU judgement to UK laws.

Westin

Flights between London (or anywhere in the UK) and Perugia are limited. If you are set on flying to Perugia you may just have to accept the flight time change. Whilst perhaps an inconvenience, flight schedules can change for a variety of reasons.  At least you had good notice and could amend ground arrangements, rather than a delay on the day with wasted time at the airport.

“Clearly they have advertised the flights at a premium time with every intention of moving them to first thing in the moving.” - this is just silliness.

“AMEX initially refunded the charges but it’s now in dispute.”  I think this may have been a big mistake on your part.  RyanAir won’t take this lightly.  The CC will always initially credit you back the charge you are disputing whilst they approach the merchant and gain more information. That chargeback does not solve the problem.  RyanAir will no doubt dispute the recharge.  You may now find you have no flights and that RyanAir win the dispute.

bagand96

Voyager2002 said:

bagand96 said:

You agreed to their T&C's when booking the flight, it's unlikely you'll be able to force them to refund you. 

Their T and Cs cannot over-ride the law.

That is true. When typing the response I wasn't aware of law applicable to the OPs situation. It's certainly not covered this way in the main body of EC261/UK261 text.

I see the OP has posted a screenshot of europa.eu which suggests otherwise, although it's hard to know exactly what that statement relies on in law. But the OP could submit that quote to Ryanair (or more likely AMEX now it's in dispute with them) and see if that persuade them.

Also note @mdann52 gives some case law that may help, but that situation is complicated too.

It's not widely accepted or applied that a schedule change triggers refund rights other than the 5 hours mentioned in EC261, which is what Ryanair apply in their T&C's. Other airlines have their own rules which may be less than 5 hours.