Jaga Strada hybrid radiator (low water content) alternative?

waqasahmed

So these radiators are designed to work with heat pumps better than regular ones purely because of their low water content

https://jaga.co.uk/about/innovation-technology/low-h20

But I'm sure there are decent alternatives that can do similar, right? I do like the "hybrid" part of it where you can also add fans to get cooling too which is probably cheaper than AC as well

But Jaga are a bloody expensive company to begin with  

FreeBear

waqasahmed said: But I'm sure there are decent alternatives that can do similar, right? I do like the "hybrid" part of it where you can also add fans to get cooling too which is probably cheaper than AC as well

Myson and Smiths both do fan assisted hydronic heaters - usually seen as plinth heaters, but they also do wall mounted variants (and have done for a very long time). Cheap, no. Reliable, yes. Quiet, can be.

waqasahmed

FreeBear said:

waqasahmed said: But I'm sure there are decent alternatives that can do similar, right? I do like the "hybrid" part of it where you can also add fans to get cooling too which is probably cheaper than AC as well

Myson and Smiths both do fan assisted hydronic heaters - usually seen as plinth heaters, but they also do wall mounted variants (and have done for a very long time). Cheap, no. Reliable, yes. Quiet, can be.

I guess they'd still be cheaper than Jaga? 

ThisIsWeird

Hi Waqasahmed.
Nice design!
Er, they look exactly like the same concept as 'Thermalpanel'  rads from 40 years ago, which I used to sell when I worked in a home improvements shop. Other than a fan can be added to these if wished.
(The Thermalpanels' were advertised by Richard Briers, I recall - bless )
They (the Thermalpanels) work by having a number of tubes carrying the CH water, rather than a shaped metal 'jacket' as in a normal rad, but the key design is that these low water volume tubes are joined to a very large surface area of convection 'fins'. This means that the heat content of the water is extracted away more effectively by the air current - in the 'Thermalpanel', the front panel of the rad was 'slatted' with hundreds of small angled fins that drew the room air inwards through the panel front, heating it, and it flowed out t'top in a much greater and faster air current, to very effectively heat a room almost completely by convection (air flow) rather than 'radiation' - the front never felt that hot.
Cracking design, worked a treat, gave out nearly double the heat compared to a standard panel rad, half the weight, much less water volume, heated up really quickly...
So, where are they now? No idea, but I loved them
Here's the thing, tho' - heat in = heat out!
Ie, the Thermalpanels could be much physically smaller than other rads, had far less water volume, were much lighter and all that, but they didn't give you 'more' heat as such. 
Read through that colourful comparison chart on the Jaga site - Smaller? Yup. Lighter? Yup. Less water volume? Yup. More effective heat transfer? Yup. Heats up faster? Yup - which also means it cools down faster... Etc etc. 
All great stuff. But will it somehow provide 'more' heat efficiency than a conventional rad? How can it? Will it give you something 'extra'? I can't see how.

Heat in = heat out. Whatever heats it gives out, it will extract from the water, no more, no less. Just like every other radiator.

The only factor on that chart that could make a difference is 'LCA'. And I have no idea what LCA means. 
In short, if you are thinking that these rads are more 'efficient' in terms of somehow providing 'more' heat for 'nothing', then I don't believe they will.
Don't get me wrong - I loved the Thermalpanels; they were much smaller and lighter and came on much faster, and heated rooms more effectively than panel rads, but they didn't 'save' you anything other than wall space.
I don't understand why they are seemingly history
AfaIcs, these Stradas are similar to the Thermalpanels; they are a way of having a 'bigger' radiator without physically going 'bigger'. That theoretically will mean you can run them at a lower temp for the same output as a similar-sized conventional rad, but there is no mystery to this. It depends on how much that extra convenience is worth to you - the TPs were priced at a similar level to panel rads for their output.

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said: The only factor on that chart that could make a difference - and, WOW! what a BIG difference - is 'LCA'.
And I have no idea what LCA means.

Life Cycle Assessment - An analysis of the total environmental impact of manufacture, shipping, and end of life disposal (including packaging). Large steel radiators manufactured in Turkey will score lower than a similar radiator made in the UK due to transportation. If you can manufacture a smaller, lighter radiator using aluminium and copper in China, you could get a higher LCA score (but mixed metals is a pig to recycle).

A good LCA score will help the board of directors sleep a little easier at night, but for the rest of us, it is a meaningless number.

And you are right - Heat in = Heat out. If a steel radiator takes 15 minutes to heat up, it will take a lot longer to cool down, but that heat is still being radiated in to the room. So looking at the bigger picture, no less efficient.

ThisIsWeird

Ah, thanks FreeBear.

In essence, then, you are effectively paying for a physically smaller radiator for your room. And, looking at the dims, not that much smaller in the case of the Strada (in the chart example, the Strada is 1200mm compared to 1400).

Ok, like the TP, it may heat the room more effectively by issuing a stronger convecting hot air current flowing upwards to 'hit' the ceiling and circulating down the far wall (like the TP), but there is no magic to this.

Waqasahmed, how much do they cost? And what do you want out of these rads - other than heat?

Sorry to go on - but why are Thermalpanels still not around? Waaaaaaaa :-(

waqasahmed

ThisIsWeird said:

Ah, thanks FreeBear.

In essence, then, you are effectively paying for a physically smaller radiator for your room. And, looking at the dims, not that much smaller in the case of the Strada (in the chart example, the Strada is 1200mm compared to 1400).

Ok, like the TP, it may heat the room more effectively by issuing a stronger convecting hot air current flowing upwards to 'hit' the ceiling and circulating down the far wall (like the TP), but there is no magic to this.

Waqasahmed, how much do they cost? And what do you want out of these rads - other than heat?

Sorry to go on - but why are Thermalpanels still not around? Waaaaaaaa :-(

Mostly just heat tbh + cooling in the summer would be nice if it comes out of these

I did look at thermaskirt too. They seem kinda cool 

Albermarle

waqasahmed said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Ah, thanks FreeBear.

In essence, then, you are effectively paying for a physically smaller radiator for your room. And, looking at the dims, not that much smaller in the case of the Strada (in the chart example, the Strada is 1200mm compared to 1400).

Ok, like the TP, it may heat the room more effectively by issuing a stronger convecting hot air current flowing upwards to 'hit' the ceiling and circulating down the far wall (like the TP), but there is no magic to this.

Waqasahmed, how much do they cost? And what do you want out of these rads - other than heat?

Sorry to go on - but why are Thermalpanels still not around? Waaaaaaaa :-(

Mostly just heat tbh + cooling in the summer would be nice if it comes out of these

I did look at thermaskirt too. They seem kinda cool 

The link refers to 'light cooling'. I think you will find there is no comparison with actual air conditioning.

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said: how much do they cost? And what do you want out of these rads - other than heat?

Can't find a price list for the H2O models, but the Strada is around £450 for the single (3.2kW @75/65°C) and £610 for the twin (3.6kW @75/65°C) - That's for the 650mm high, 1200mm long, 220mm deep. On par with "designer" radiators, but darned expensive when compared to a basic Stelrad. Oh, and the fan boost adds another £550 on top.

ThisIsWeird

Albermarle said:

waqasahmed said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Ah, thanks FreeBear.

In essence, then, you are effectively paying for a physically smaller radiator for your room. And, looking at the dims, not that much smaller in the case of the Strada (in the chart example, the Strada is 1200mm compared to 1400).

Ok, like the TP, it may heat the room more effectively by issuing a stronger convecting hot air current flowing upwards to 'hit' the ceiling and circulating down the far wall (like the TP), but there is no magic to this.

Waqasahmed, how much do they cost? And what do you want out of these rads - other than heat?

Sorry to go on - but why are Thermalpanels still not around? Waaaaaaaa :-(

Mostly just heat tbh + cooling in the summer would be nice if it comes out of these

I did look at thermaskirt too. They seem kinda cool 

The link refers to 'light cooling'. I think you will find there is no comparison with actual air conditioning.

Yes, I can't see it doing anything but blow the existing room air around like wot a normal fan would do, but less effectively.

waqasahmed

FreeBear said:

ThisIsWeird said: how much do they cost? And what do you want out of these rads - other than heat?

Can't find a price list for the H2O models, but the Strada is around £450 for the single (3.2kW @75/65°C) and £610 for the twin (3.6kW @75/65°C) - That's for the 650mm high, 1200mm long, 220mm deep. On par with "designer" radiators, but darned expensive when compared to a basic Stelrad. Oh, and the fan boost adds another £550 on top.

Do Stelrad also have the low water content radiators?