Premier Sports 30-Day Cancelation Policy

flaneurs_lobster

How's their ice hockey coverage?

flaneurs_lobster

jonronnquist said:

flaneurs_lobster said:

How's their ice hockey coverage?

ps. I know it was tongue in cheek. 

I do have some interest here, I've got an annual subscription to Premier (for their rugby coverage) or rather I think I do.

Premier took over rugby coverage from ViaPlay this year and my subscription was carried over, although there's no indication of this when I check my Premier account online. 

The service just works, as long as it doesn't give out before the URC Final this Saturday (c'mon Warriors) I'll be happy (if mystified).

RefluentBeans

You seem unhappy with your consumer rights. Unfortunately, rights come with responsibilities. When you click the check box saying ‘yes I’ve read the terms’ or if you confirm you have read the terms (by the very nature you’re making an order) it is your responsibility to read those. 

You can of course ask for a refund. They may give it to you for goodwill, but otherwise, you’ll have to sue to claim the money back. And given you’re not on the best legal ground, I’d think it’d be throwing more money down the drain. 

You’ve given examples of companies that you haven’t got to give notice for. There’s tons of companies you have to give notice for, like some gyms, some network providers, some sports streaming services. Unfortunately giving notice is a common enough thing that you can’t say it’s a weird term to have and they should’ve made it more prominent. The whole ‘what aboutism’ doesn’t help your case. If you do sue, they’ll deal with your facts not some theoretical person. 

RefluentBeans

jonronnquist said:

RefluentBeans said:

You seem unhappy with your consumer rights. Unfortunately, rights come with responsibilities. When you click the check box saying ‘yes I’ve read the terms’ or if you confirm you have read the terms (by the very nature you’re making an order) it is your responsibility to read those. 

You can of course ask for a refund. They may give it to you for goodwill, but otherwise, you’ll have to sue to claim the money back. And given you’re not on the best legal ground, I’d think it’d be throwing more money down the drain. 

You’ve given examples of companies that you haven’t got to give notice for. There’s tons of companies you have to give notice for, like some gyms, some network providers, some sports streaming services. Unfortunately giving notice is a common enough thing that you can’t say it’s a weird term to have and they should’ve made it more prominent. The whole ‘what aboutism’ doesn’t help your case. If you do sue, they’ll deal with your facts not some theoretical person. 

Thank you for your invaluable contribution. 

I've already received my refund. I came on here to ask if there was some clear legal argument I could use to obtain it, or if I would have to resort to blackmail, threats, and whatever else it took. The only thing I never wondered about was whether or not I would get my money back. That was always going to happen. And the reason is simple enough. I don't like being humiliated as a consumer. I'm slightly neurotic on the subject, as you've probably already gathered. 

But you have missed the point. My argument was about the fairness of the terms and conditions, and that question stands whether I read them before I signed up or not. And I don't think it's fair to call what I did whataboutism. I was making a comparison between those businesses that can afford to treat their customers with respect and those that rely on a certain amount of subterfuge and intransigence to keep the ship afloat. Companies, in other words, that cannot make money on fair and reasonable terms. Your example of gyms (I presume you mean the 24-hour walk-in things) and some of the budget internet and mobile providers are exactly what I am talking about. I just wasn't aware that Premier Sports was in this category as I have used them several times before and this was never an issue. As it turns out, the company has just relaunched after buying its assets back from some foreign corporation that couldn't make them work in this country. They've returned to the game, only now they're likely saddled with more debt and higher costs, so we get customer service offshored to the worst call centre I've ever dealt with, cheap, low-bandwidth servers, a buggy user interface, and 30-day notice requirements to cancel 30-day contracts.

On the question of being responsible and reading the small print, I choose to be a realist. We live in a hyper-legislative society. Everything you use, buy, or borrow comes with an ever-growing pile of legal stings attached. I would never take out a loan, mortgage, or credit card without availing myself of at least the more significant terms and conditions. Although I have never read one of those agreements from beginning to end, and I suspect that other than the people who write them, no one else has either. Do I follow the links to the 15 pages of terms and conditions at the bottom of the confirmation emails I get when I book tickets for the kids to Go Ape or Flip Out? No. Did I read through the full T&Cs when I signed up to Netflix, Disney Plus, Apple TV, Spotify, YouTube Premium, BT Broadband, or my VPN subscription? I did not. Do I consider this the height of recklessness? No, not really. 

The truth is that most people don't, and this is generally understood to the case, even by the legal system. No defence lawyer who knew what they were doing would ever try to win a case against a corporate client by waving the terms and conditions in front of a jury as justification for immoral behaviour. To the average consumer, 90% of the legalese in those agreements might as well be written in Mandarin anyway. The reason society doesn't fall apart as a result is simple. Trust. Reputable sellers and service providers understand that treating their customers well is good for business, and most people trust them to do so. This is simply the reality we live in. So wagging your finger at people and quoting lines from Spiderman might be a great source of self-satisfaction, but it's not clever in this context. 

Glad you got your refund.

Next time be sure to read the terms you voluntarily agree to. If you don’t you may have to resort to ‘blackmail, threats, or whatever it takes’ - which is a poor argument. 

I’m afraid you can’t be a ‘realist’ and not read the terms; and hope the legal system will back you up. The very legal system you want to protect you, are the ones that say you have the responsibility to read the terms. I agree, most are boilerplate stuff that is shared across the board, but that also means when I choose not to read the terms I can’t have a go when I get burnt. 

If reading small print is an issue, I hear SpecSavers sell some decent glasses.  

jonronnquist

RefluentBeans said:

jonronnquist said:

RefluentBeans said:

You seem unhappy with your consumer rights. Unfortunately, rights come with responsibilities. When you click the check box saying ‘yes I’ve read the terms’ or if you confirm you have read the terms (by the very nature you’re making an order) it is your responsibility to read those. 

You can of course ask for a refund. They may give it to you for goodwill, but otherwise, you’ll have to sue to claim the money back. And given you’re not on the best legal ground, I’d think it’d be throwing more money down the drain. 

You’ve given examples of companies that you haven’t got to give notice for. There’s tons of companies you have to give notice for, like some gyms, some network providers, some sports streaming services. Unfortunately giving notice is a common enough thing that you can’t say it’s a weird term to have and they should’ve made it more prominent. The whole ‘what aboutism’ doesn’t help your case. If you do sue, they’ll deal with your facts not some theoretical person. 

Thank you for your invaluable contribution. 

I've already received my refund. I came on here to ask if there was some clear legal argument I could use to obtain it, or if I would have to resort to blackmail, threats, and whatever else it took. The only thing I never wondered about was whether or not I would get my money back. That was always going to happen. And the reason is simple enough. I don't like being humiliated as a consumer. I'm slightly neurotic on the subject, as you've probably already gathered. 

But you have missed the point. My argument was about the fairness of the terms and conditions, and that question stands whether I read them before I signed up or not. And I don't think it's fair to call what I did whataboutism. I was making a comparison between those businesses that can afford to treat their customers with respect and those that rely on a certain amount of subterfuge and intransigence to keep the ship afloat. Companies, in other words, that cannot make money on fair and reasonable terms. Your example of gyms (I presume you mean the 24-hour walk-in things) and some of the budget internet and mobile providers are exactly what I am talking about. I just wasn't aware that Premier Sports was in this category as I have used them several times before and this was never an issue. As it turns out, the company has just relaunched after buying its assets back from some foreign corporation that couldn't make them work in this country. They've returned to the game, only now they're likely saddled with more debt and higher costs, so we get customer service offshored to the worst call centre I've ever dealt with, cheap, low-bandwidth servers, a buggy user interface, and 30-day notice requirements to cancel 30-day contracts.

On the question of being responsible and reading the small print, I choose to be a realist. We live in a hyper-legislative society. Everything you use, buy, or borrow comes with an ever-growing pile of legal stings attached. I would never take out a loan, mortgage, or credit card without availing myself of at least the more significant terms and conditions. Although I have never read one of those agreements from beginning to end, and I suspect that other than the people who write them, no one else has either. Do I follow the links to the 15 pages of terms and conditions at the bottom of the confirmation emails I get when I book tickets for the kids to Go Ape or Flip Out? No. Did I read through the full T&Cs when I signed up to Netflix, Disney Plus, Apple TV, Spotify, YouTube Premium, BT Broadband, or my VPN subscription? I did not. Do I consider this the height of recklessness? No, not really. 

The truth is that most people don't, and this is generally understood to the case, even by the legal system. No defence lawyer who knew what they were doing would ever try to win a case against a corporate client by waving the terms and conditions in front of a jury as justification for immoral behaviour. To the average consumer, 90% of the legalese in those agreements might as well be written in Mandarin anyway. The reason society doesn't fall apart as a result is simple. Trust. Reputable sellers and service providers understand that treating their customers well is good for business, and most people trust them to do so. This is simply the reality we live in. So wagging your finger at people and quoting lines from Spiderman might be a great source of self-satisfaction, but it's not clever in this context. 

Glad you got your refund.

Next time be sure to read the terms you voluntarily agree to. If you don’t you may have to resort to ‘blackmail, threats, or whatever it takes’ - which is a poor argument. 

I’m afraid you can’t be a ‘realist’ and not read the terms; and hope the legal system will back you up. The very legal system you want to protect you, are the ones that say you have the responsibility to read the terms. I agree, most are boilerplate stuff that is shared across the board, but that also means when I choose not to read the terms I can’t have a go when I get burnt. 

If reading small print is an issue, I hear SpecSavers sell some decent glasses.  

 You are confusing realism with idealism. 

Grumpy_chap

jonronnquist said:

I've already received my refund. I came on here to ask if there was some clear legal argument I could use to obtain it, or if I would have to resort to blackmail, threats, and whatever else it took. The only thing I never wondered about was whether or not I would get my money back. That was always going to happen. And the reason is simple enough. I don't like being humiliated as a consumer. I'm slightly neurotic on the subject, as you've probably already gathered. 

That sounds like a good and quick outcome for you.
Out of interest, what was the basis that the refund was agreed by the provider?
This information is helpful as it may be asked by another forumite in the future.

powerful_Rogue

If it was me, i'd just read the relevant part of the T&C's that relate to the cancellation.

Phoenix72

jonronnquist said:

Grumpy_chap said:

jonronnquist said:

I've already received my refund. I came on here to ask if there was some clear legal argument I could use to obtain it, or if I would have to resort to blackmail, threats, and whatever else it took. The only thing I never wondered about was whether or not I would get my money back. That was always going to happen. And the reason is simple enough. I don't like being humiliated as a consumer. I'm slightly neurotic on the subject, as you've probably already gathered. 

That sounds like a good and quick outcome for you.
Out of interest, what was the basis that the refund was agreed by the provider?
This information is helpful as it may be asked by another forumite in the future.

I sent them a long email detailing my complaint and bringing their attention to my 1-star review on Trustpilot. They didn't offer an explanation, just refunded the charge. So I can't really say what motivated them. I did focus in my email on the law requiring T&Cs to be fairly balanced between seller and buyer, and that theirs violated this in my opinion. So while I would like to believe it was my well-reasoned argument, they may just have decided to spare themselves the hassle of dealing with a persistent pain in the a**.  

Definitely the last sentence. You got lucky.

jonronnquist

Phoenix72 said:

jonronnquist said:

Grumpy_chap said:

jonronnquist said:

I've already received my refund. I came on here to ask if there was some clear legal argument I could use to obtain it, or if I would have to resort to blackmail, threats, and whatever else it took. The only thing I never wondered about was whether or not I would get my money back. That was always going to happen. And the reason is simple enough. I don't like being humiliated as a consumer. I'm slightly neurotic on the subject, as you've probably already gathered. 

That sounds like a good and quick outcome for you.
Out of interest, what was the basis that the refund was agreed by the provider?
This information is helpful as it may be asked by another forumite in the future.

I sent them a long email detailing my complaint and bringing their attention to my 1-star review on Trustpilot. They didn't offer an explanation, just refunded the charge. So I can't really say what motivated them. I did focus in my email on the law requiring T&Cs to be fairly balanced between seller and buyer, and that theirs violated this in my opinion. So while I would like to believe it was my well-reasoned argument, they may just have decided to spare themselves the hassle of dealing with a persistent pain in the a**.  

Definitely the last sentence. You got lucky.

I'll agree that I may have been lucky to get the refund as quickly as I did. The last time I had a cancellation issue it was with Sky, and they kept at it for several months before giving it up as a lost cause. In my experience, if you're willing to stay with it for the duration, most companies will eventually do the math and capitulate. 

jonronnquist

Phoenix72 said:

jonronnquist said:

Grumpy_chap said:

jonronnquist said:

I've already received my refund. I came on here to ask if there was some clear legal argument I could use to obtain it, or if I would have to resort to blackmail, threats, and whatever else it took. The only thing I never wondered about was whether or not I would get my money back. That was always going to happen. And the reason is simple enough. I don't like being humiliated as a consumer. I'm slightly neurotic on the subject, as you've probably already gathered. 

That sounds like a good and quick outcome for you.
Out of interest, what was the basis that the refund was agreed by the provider?
This information is helpful as it may be asked by another forumite in the future.

I sent them a long email detailing my complaint and bringing their attention to my 1-star review on Trustpilot. They didn't offer an explanation, just refunded the charge. So I can't really say what motivated them. I did focus in my email on the law requiring T&Cs to be fairly balanced between seller and buyer, and that theirs violated this in my opinion. So while I would like to believe it was my well-reasoned argument, they may just have decided to spare themselves the hassle of dealing with a persistent pain in the a**.  

Definitely the last sentence. You got lucky.

Yes, that may well be what happened. And if it is, I am more than happy with both outcome and the means I used to achieve it. I know it's hard for some people to walk past a militant position without piling on to the opposite side of the argument, so I don't take it personally. But when you're dealing with unscrupulous people, you can either blame yourself (This is what most people do, and these people know it all too well) or you can abandon your own scruples and do something about it. Simples.