British Gas Charges for Replacing Hive Hub

Ergates

jules99 said:

born_again said:

jules99 said:

On a recent boiler Service visit (I don't have Homecare insurance), I mentioned my Hive hub was flashing green and the hot water didn't come on the day before because it was scheduled via the Hive (although I knew I could turn on manually). I had read advice on Hive how to get it going again (it was offline), but nothing worked. Checking heating controls was part of the Service so he tried & rang someone. He then said I needed a new one - £125 (even he was shocked). 

Choices given were:  Don't have a Hive hub & use manually & I will be charged nothing or he has a new one in the van. I wasn't sure whether to just operate it manually in future but had to make a decision so opted for getting a new one.  What I didn't know was that I could have ordered one directly from Hive (£60 inc postage) & plug it in myself & then follow instructions on the app to delete my old one. This would have contained another ethernet cable, Hive plug & USB connector, but the one I got didn't so he just used what I had already. It was a straightforward replacement NOT A REPAIR, but I see on their website they have a standard charge for repairs (even a boiler or cooker) - £125.  So, it seems that's the only option the engineer had. The invoice is now overdue because I refuse to pay, but put a complaint in via Facebook, which can take up to 80 days.  

I'm concerned about this being overdue so I rang them (nightmare - can't understand what they say due to their accent & speaking quite low, then get cut off). I finally got through again & I asked him to put the invoice on old until my complaint has been dealt with. He said he would but I didn't trust that he had and it is still showing as overdue in my account.

I expect I will get some reminders & consequences if I don't pay.  What my comlaint said is that the other option I should have been given is buy one myself. They must know that I can. It only took him 5 mins to plug in and set it up on the app & I could have easily done that myself.

Anybody know what my rights are re the invoice? It gives 14 days to cancel on the invoice but this is different as I signed the agreeement in my home ont he day and didn't have much time to think about it. 

Thank you
Julie

Well they can mark your credit file/history as a missed payment & chase via debt collectors.
In reality, you agreed to the work & should pay the bill.

While hindsight is a wonderful thing. Given you had the issue & was not fixed by Hive online support. Did you not look into options at that point.
Or is this the reason you had the boiler serviced?

Because the Service guy was there the next day, naturally he had to look at my devices as part of the Service which he didn't charge me for, but it says on the Agreement charges for 'investigating the controls' so that's incorrect.

Regardless of what words are written on the invoice:  You were given a quote to supply and install the item and you accepted, then the work was carried out.  There is no indication that you were unduly pressured into accepting nor were you subject to any dishonest sales tactics.  Finding out afterwards you could have installed it yourself for cheaper doesn't mean their terms were unfair - there are any number of things I could do myself that I could also pay someone to do.  A company is under no obligation to tell you that you can do things yourself.

Nothing you have said indicates a legitimate reason not to pay this bill.  "I don't want to" doesn't count.

400ixl

This is no different to say a TRV valve on a radiator being found to be defective during a heating service. They would offer to replace it there and then which as a cost for the part with their mark up and time to replace. Would you expect them to also tell you that you could buy one at the local plumbing centre for half the price and do it yourself?

You could have asked how difficult it was to replace and then checked online to compare the price at the time (Amazon sell them for example) and then made a decision.

I don't see what redress you have personally. It was unfortunate you didn't have the time to investigate the issue first and see if you would have diagnosed the problem yourself.

There is the story that a shipping company had a ship that would not engage the propellor, they brought in a external engineer who produced a small hammer and gave it a tap on the gearbox and it engaged the propellor. The engineer gave the company a large bill for his work. They protested and said it was extortionate for a tap by a hammer. He explained it wasn't the hammer they were paying for, it was his expertise in knowing how to use it.

Would you have found the issue was the Hive hub in a reasonable amount of time if he hadn't diagnosed it, or would you have been stumbling around and swapping parts, or even living with a manual process for moths. That alone could have been worth the £50 extra it cost you.

jules99

400ixl said:

This is no different to say a TRV valve on a radiator being found to be defective during a heating service. They would offer to replace it there and then which as a cost for the part with their mark up and time to replace. Would you expect them to also tell you that you could buy one at the local plumbing centre for half the price and do it yourself?

You could have asked how difficult it was to replace and then checked online to compare the price at the time (Amazon sell them for example) and then made a decision.

I don't see what redress you have personally. It was unfortunate you didn't have the time to investigate the issue first and see if you would have diagnosed the problem yourself.

There is the story that a shipping company had a ship that would not engage the propellor, they brought in a external engineer who produced a small hammer and gave it a tap on the gearbox and it engaged the propellor. The engineer gave the company a large bill for his work. They protested and said it was extortionate for a tap by a hammer. He explained it wasn't the hammer they were paying for, it was his expertise in knowing how to use it.

Would you have found the issue was the Hive hub in a reasonable amount of time if he hadn't diagnosed it, or would you have been stumbling around and swapping parts, or even living with a manual process for moths. That alone could have been worth the £50 extra it cost you.

I get what you are saying about it being worth the extra cost  - that's a good example for someone else's situation but it doesn't apply to mine. It is worth paying for extra hassle and expertise but this doesn't apply. I would have contacted Hive and they would have tried to get it back online by asking me to follow some steps (which I had already done in the time that I had) and then told me to buy one off them. Problem solved. No parts to swap in my case and I wouldn't have lived with a manual process for months because of what I've just said. Unfortunate that the day after it went offline that they wanted to do the boiler Service so I didn't get the chance to do that. 

He didn't diagnose anything or use technical experise to plug it in. I keep trying to make that clear but noone is being understanding of this or that BG are overcharging because their pricing system for engineers only allows for a 'repair' in that situation, or at least that's what seems to have happened as it was the same charge, which is the same for up to 45 mins boiler repair. It's an unfair charge in that sense. 

You are using the same sort of example as others. Hive is connected to British Gas, it's not competing with British Gas for supply and fitting. They work together. The fitting was plugging it in - even a child could do it. .If their own website says the hub is £60 and directs people to Hive, then if using the logic as people on here about not expecting a company to say I could get it cheaper elsewhere, then why do BG have a link to buy it from Hive.

The boiler service includes checking all my radiators but he didn't do that. That would have taken him the same or more of time as plugging the hub in and adding it to the app on my phone. Should I ask for money back on the £100 I paid for a full Service :-)

Thanks for the shipping company story- although it wasn't his expertise I was paying for because there wasn't any used. He used no more knowledge than I did in diagnosing that it didn't connect. It wasn't something like a TRV valve. I had been using the product and had the same knowledge. 

MeteredOut

Sorry OP, this sounds like buyers remorse. I've had it myself, and I hated that I rushed into a decision and wanted to blame someone else, but that was the case.

Never expect a representative of a company to tell you about a cheaper alternative to something they can sell you.

jules99

Ergates said:

jules99 said:

born_again said:

jules99 said:

On a recent boiler Service visit (I don't have Homecare insurance), I mentioned my Hive hub was flashing green and the hot water didn't come on the day before because it was scheduled via the Hive (although I knew I could turn on manually). I had read advice on Hive how to get it going again (it was offline), but nothing worked. Checking heating controls was part of the Service so he tried & rang someone. He then said I needed a new one - £125 (even he was shocked). 

Choices given were:  Don't have a Hive hub & use manually & I will be charged nothing or he has a new one in the van. I wasn't sure whether to just operate it manually in future but had to make a decision so opted for getting a new one.  What I didn't know was that I could have ordered one directly from Hive (£60 inc postage) & plug it in myself & then follow instructions on the app to delete my old one. This would have contained another ethernet cable, Hive plug & USB connector, but the one I got didn't so he just used what I had already. It was a straightforward replacement NOT A REPAIR, but I see on their website they have a standard charge for repairs (even a boiler or cooker) - £125.  So, it seems that's the only option the engineer had. The invoice is now overdue because I refuse to pay, but put a complaint in via Facebook, which can take up to 80 days.  

I'm concerned about this being overdue so I rang them (nightmare - can't understand what they say due to their accent & speaking quite low, then get cut off). I finally got through again & I asked him to put the invoice on old until my complaint has been dealt with. He said he would but I didn't trust that he had and it is still showing as overdue in my account.

I expect I will get some reminders & consequences if I don't pay.  What my comlaint said is that the other option I should have been given is buy one myself. They must know that I can. It only took him 5 mins to plug in and set it up on the app & I could have easily done that myself.

Anybody know what my rights are re the invoice? It gives 14 days to cancel on the invoice but this is different as I signed the agreeement in my home ont he day and didn't have much time to think about it. 

Thank you
Julie

Well they can mark your credit file/history as a missed payment & chase via debt collectors.
In reality, you agreed to the work & should pay the bill.

While hindsight is a wonderful thing. Given you had the issue & was not fixed by Hive online support. Did you not look into options at that point.
Or is this the reason you had the boiler serviced?

Because the Service guy was there the next day, naturally he had to look at my devices as part of the Service which he didn't charge me for, but it says on the Agreement charges for 'investigating the controls' so that's incorrect.

Regardless of what words are written on the invoice:  You were given a quote to supply and install the item and you accepted, then the work was carried out.  There is no indication that you were unduly pressured into accepting nor were you subject to any dishonest sales tactics.  Finding out afterwards you could have installed it yourself for cheaper doesn't mean their terms were unfair - there are any number of things I could do myself that I could also pay someone to do.  A company is under no obligation to tell you that you can do things yourself.

Nothing you have said indicates a legitimate reason not to pay this bill.  "I don't want to" doesn't count.

Nothing in my post or replies suggests 'I don't want to' - it's based on unfair prices for labour to plug a device in and spend a few mins on the app, with no expertise used, but yet I could  have had my boiler replied for £125, with up to 45 mins labour time, paying for exertise. 

He had to check it as part of the boiler service so the Agreement saying it was a charge to investigate the hub is relevant and it's incorrect and sounds like he is charging me for the labour of doing that, when that is included in the Service.  

It seems to be this 'doing it myself' that is making people think I don't have any points to make.  They work closely with Hive and their own website re-directs to buy a Hive hub for £60 so that tells me they aren't competitors and it should have been mentioned.   They have no obligation to tell me it's cheaper elsewhere. They wouldn't tell me to do something complicated myself if I wanted to - of course not. But I am talking about plugging a device in and being charged £60. It's crazy.

sheramber

Sometimes when someone is in your home and you are already feeling stressed about many things (I had just woke up after going back to bed that day for two hours feeling exhaused and they had rung to say they are in the area and can they come now instead of following week), then bad choices are made.  However, my choices felt limited.

I don't think that would be a valid argument.

You were told the price and had the chance to decline but accepted it. 

400ixl

I know exactly how Hive works (I installed one myself from scratch replacing an old non smart system).

If you had exactly the same knowledge, then why would you buy a replacement hub from him, other than for convenience of him having one there? If I was in the same situation I would know that there is always going to be a mark up and an engineering cost and its a convenience vs delay decision. 

You are complaining about something that you are saying you knew better at the time but chose not to validate. They have not conned you out of money there.

On the other hand if checking all the radiators are working correctly is part of the service and they didn't do that, then yes you should be complaining about that.

jules99

I don't normally use forums but am very stressed about many things and wanted practical advice rather than trying to show how I am wrong when I know my situation is different from the examples given.  Many comments perhaps aren't intended to be unhelpful and patronising, but they do come across that way. I'm no longer checking for replies so won't respond further. 

Aylesbury_Duck

jules99 said:

Thanks for your replies Aylesury and TELLIT. 

Sometimes when someone is in your home and you are already feeling stressed about many things (I had just woke up after going back to bed that day for two hours feeling exhaused and they had rung to say they are in the area and can they come now instead of following week), then bad choices are made.  However, my choices felt limited.

If he had given me the the option to buy myself then it would have been the obvious choice, but I didn't know I could. The system was fitted by BG. Shopping around is what I always do but not for someone to plug me a hub in so I felt my options at the time was to leave it and not have it running as it should, so a waste of money having it in the first place or have him sort it. I did challenge it but he said that was the only option on the system. Like I said he was shocked too. This was the same option as a 'one off repair' of a boiler taking up to 45 mins that requires expertise.

I'm challenging the unfairness of the pricing and that customers should be told they can buy one themselves directly if it requires no technical expertise. This may need me to pay the invoice first though.






 
  

This may be pertinent.  Are you saying that he said there was no other option?  That sounds like a different story to what you started with, where you said the system could run without it.

born_again

jules99 said:

I don't normally use forums but am very stressed about many things and wanted practical advice rather than trying to show how I am wrong when I know my situation is different from the examples given.  Many comments perhaps aren't intended to be unhelpful and patronising, but they do come across that way. I'm no longer checking for replies so won't respond further. 

Well we could all say yes you are right to want your money back & not pay the bill. Only that would be giving the wrong advice.
Sadly sometimes the truth is often not want people want to hear.

Hive is owned by Centrica, of which BG are part of the same parent group.