Will writing via a solicitor or a charity?

katejo

I need to do my will and also set up  Power of Attorney just in case it is needed. My financial advisor put me in touch with a firm which has given me a quote. Before I decide, I'd like to hear people's experiences of asking a charity to do the will. I have several charities in mind to donate to but a previous solicitor warned me off contacting them in advance of my death. Said I would be chased persistently.

Brie

katejo said:

I need to do my will and also set up  Power of Attorney just in case it is needed. My financial advisor put me in touch with a firm which has given me a quote. Before I decide, I'd like to hear people's experiences of asking a charity to do the will. I have several charities in mind to donate to but a previous solicitor warned me off contacting them in advance of my death. Said I would be chased persistently.

Is this an independent financial advisor?  getting kickbacks from a particular firm?  

I also find the solicitor's warning bizarre.  If you don't contact them prior to dying how can you do a will??

There's a number of solicitors in every area of the country that will do a will for "free" with all you having to do is to make a donation in your will to a variety of charities.  £75 is often quoted as an appropriate figure.  And I would assume this is for some fairly uncomplicated, a very simple will.  If your finances and life are complicated you need something more comprehensive.

As for the PoAs - they can be DIYd using the forms found on line.  Just make sure you follow the instructions about who can sign what and witness etc.  Costs about £85 for each one.  A solicitor will charge a few times this at least for no particularly good reason that I can see.  

Keep_pedalling

Brie said:

katejo said:

I need to do my will and also set up  Power of Attorney just in case it is needed. My financial advisor put me in touch with a firm which has given me a quote. Before I decide, I'd like to hear people's experiences of asking a charity to do the will. I have several charities in mind to donate to but a previous solicitor warned me off contacting them in advance of my death. Said I would be chased persistently.

Is this an independent financial advisor?  getting kickbacks from a particular firm?  

I also find the solicitor's warning bizarre.  If you don't contact them prior to dying how can you do a will??

There's a number of solicitors in every area of the country that will do a will for "free" with all you having to do is to make a donation in your will to a variety of charities.  £75 is often quoted as an appropriate figure.  And I would assume this is for some fairly uncomplicated, a very simple will.  If your finances and life are complicated you need something more comprehensive.

As for the PoAs - they can be DIYd using the forms found on line.  Just make sure you follow the instructions about who can sign what and witness etc.  Costs about £85 for each one.  A solicitor will charge a few times this at least for no particularly good reason that I can see.  

IFAs are not allowed to do that but most have relationships with solicitors to handle with a solicitor to handle stuff they are not regulated to do. It will be a two way thing with the solicitor pushing things like IHT planning to the IFA. That is certainly how it works with our IFA.

I would agree DIY your LPAs unless you don’t have anyone suitable to act as attorneys and you plan to use the solicitor. 

katejo

Brie said:

katejo said:

I need to do my will and also set up  Power of Attorney just in case it is needed. My financial advisor put me in touch with a firm which has given me a quote. Before I decide, I'd like to hear people's experiences of asking a charity to do the will. I have several charities in mind to donate to but a previous solicitor warned me off contacting them in advance of my death. Said I would be chased persistently.

Is this an independent financial advisor?  getting kickbacks from a particular firm?  

I also find the solicitor's warning bizarre.  If you don't contact them prior to dying how can you do a will??

There's a number of solicitors in every area of the country that will do a will for "free" with all you having to do is to make a donation in your will to a variety of charities.  £75 is often quoted as an appropriate figure.  And I would assume this is for some fairly uncomplicated, a very simple will.  If your finances and life are complicated you need something more comprehensive.

As for the PoAs - they can be DIYd using the forms found on line.  Just make sure you follow the instructions about who can sign what and witness etc.  Costs about £85 for each one.  A solicitor will charge a few times this at least for no particularly good reason that I can see.  

The warning wasn't from the current solicitor. it was from one about 15 years ago when I started thinking about a will but didn't complete it.

pjs493

I’ve now written two Wills. The first in contemplation of marriage to my husband, and the second after he died. Both times I used the ‘free wills network’. 

When my husband and I wrote our mirror Wills, we chose a charity we wanted to leave a modest amount of money to and through their Wills scheme they sent us a list of local law firms what subscribed to the scheme. We picked a local firm we were familiar with off the list, we had a short meeting in which they took details of our wishes, drafted the Wills, sent them to us for amendments, and then once we’d approved the final versions they were signed and witnessed. We recieved a copy for our records. 

We were under no obligation to leave a gift to the chosen charity, but it was a charity we felt passionately about so didn’t mind leaving a gift that exceeded the cost of writing up a basic Will. When my husband died and Probate had been granted I received a lovely letter from the charity, but the underlying message was that they knew my husband had died and left them a gift. They weren’t pushy and I’d already tried to contact their gifts team to find out how I could get an appropriate ‘receipt’ to keep with my records in my role as executor. Their bereavements team were very helpful and I received a condolence/thank you letter when I made the donation. 

When I wrote my second Will. I followed pretty much the same format, but chose a different charity (the charity I chose had supported me after the death of my husband). I had to pay the solicitor a small fee to do a digital ID check (I think it might have been £12). 

The ‘free Wills network’ will work for most people with fairly straightforward wishes. In my first case, my husband and I left everything to each other barring the charitable donation and a couple of sentimental bequests. They also included our, at that time unborn, children, and various other contingencies often known as a ‘disaster clause’. 

My new Will leaves everything to our two children with some items specifically left to each child, everything else is split evenly with my executors deciding what to sell and split the proceeds for and what unlisted items could be taken by one and something else taken by the other. Importantly, my new Will sets up a bare trust for my children in case I die before they turn 18, so their needs can be taken care of by my estate until they turn 18 and get their share. I’ve also spoken extensively to my siblings (who are the executors) so they know what I want them to spend money on, eg sell the house to pay for school fees, that sort of thing. 

I’ve also written some more detailed instructions that I’ve kept with the copy of my Will, and discussed with my siblings, that goes into more detail about my funeral wishes, sentimental items that are to be kept for the children until they’re old enough to decide to keep them or if they don’t care about them and want to flog them, etc. What to do with the dogs, etc. 

It feels more complicated this time around now that I’m on my own with underage children. When my husband and I wrote our mirror Wills, we did it because we knew it was a sensible move to have Wills, not because we ever though the Wills in that form would ever need to be used. It wouldn’t really have changed anything due to the rules of intestacy once we married, but it was still a good idea to make them. Now I’ve got the children to consider, etc. 

As an aside, because my husband’s death was so sudden and unexpected, no less than 14 people in my family made or updated their Wills. I guess everyone suddenly realised, it could happen to any of us so we ought to be prepared. We’ve also all had conversations about what happens if someone dies. In many cases it’s straightforward because those due to inherit are adults, but for those of us with young children, meant we all made solid plans, just in case. 

My paternal grandparents, who died 20 odd years ago, died with 30-40 year old Wills written before their children had married and had children of their own. While their estates were fairly straightforward there was much discussion afterwards about whether they would have likely left things to grandchildren if they’d updated their Wills in old age. They both died of long term illnesses but I guess it didn’t occur to them to update their Wills when they got ill. 

Anyway, that was a very long winded and detailed way of saying that using the ‘free wills network’ is good if you need a simple Will and have a fairly straightforward estate. It’s probably not going to be sufficient if you have very complicated affairs, property overseas, etc. The solicitor you use, if you use the free Wills service, may charge you an additional fee if things get more complicated that the basic fee the charity pay to cover the basic Will cost. 

Also be wary of vague language, I know someone who was robbed out of an inheritance due to a basic Will not being specific enough about the exact item the individual was due to inherit. Eg the Will stated ‘I bequeath Jane Doe my antique bookcase’ and the family argued that the Will wasn’t specific enough and referred to a bookcase that was no longer in the deceased person’s house having been sold during an earlier house move, so ‘Jane Doe’ didn’t get the bookcase that everyone but the greedy family member who was the executor knew was supposed to go to her. It was petty and vindictive, but unfortunately meant that the wishes of the deceased weren’t met. 

katejo

pjs493 said:

I’ve now written two Wills. The first in contemplation of marriage to my husband, and the second after he died. Both times I used the ‘free wills network’. 

When my husband and I wrote our mirror Wills, we chose a charity we wanted to leave a modest amount of money to and through their Wills scheme they sent us a list of local law firms what subscribed to the scheme. We picked a local firm we were familiar with off the list, we had a short meeting in which they took details of our wishes, drafted the Wills, sent them to us for amendments, and then once we’d approved the final versions they were signed and witnessed. We recieved a copy for our records. 

We were under no obligation to leave a gift to the chosen charity, but it was a charity we felt passionately about so didn’t mind leaving a gift that exceeded the cost of writing up a basic Will. When my husband died and Probate had been granted I received a lovely letter from the charity, but the underlying message was that they knew my husband had died and left them a gift. They weren’t pushy and I’d already tried to contact their gifts team to find out how I could get an appropriate ‘receipt’ to keep with my records in my role as executor. Their bereavements team were very helpful and I received a condolence/thank you letter when I made the donation. 

When I wrote my second Will. I followed pretty much the same format, but chose a different charity (the charity I chose had supported me after the death of my husband). I had to pay the solicitor a small fee to do a digital ID check (I think it might have been £12). 

The ‘free Wills network’ will work for most people with fairly straightforward wishes. In my first case, my husband and I left everything to each other barring the charitable donation and a couple of sentimental bequests. They also included our, at that time unborn, children, and various other contingencies often known as a ‘disaster clause’. 

My new Will leaves everything to our two children with some items specifically left to each child, everything else is split evenly with my executors deciding what to sell and split the proceeds for and what unlisted items could be taken by one and something else taken by the other. Importantly, my new Will sets up a bare trust for my children in case I die before they turn 18, so their needs can be taken care of by my estate until they turn 18 and get their share. I’ve also spoken extensively to my siblings (who are the executors) so they know what I want them to spend money on, eg sell the house to pay for school fees, that sort of thing. 

I’ve also written some more detailed instructions that I’ve kept with the copy of my Will, and discussed with my siblings, that goes into more detail about my funeral wishes, sentimental items that are to be kept for the children until they’re old enough to decide to keep them or if they don’t care about them and want to flog them, etc. What to do with the dogs, etc. 

It feels more complicated this time around now that I’m on my own with underage children. When my husband and I wrote our mirror Wills, we did it because we knew it was a sensible move to have Wills, not because we ever though the Wills in that form would ever need to be used. It wouldn’t really have changed anything due to the rules of intestacy once we married, but it was still a good idea to make them. Now I’ve got the children to consider, etc. 

As an aside, because my husband’s death was so sudden and unexpected, no less than 14 people in my family made or updated their Wills. I guess everyone suddenly realised, it could happen to any of us so we ought to be prepared. We’ve also all had conversations about what happens if someone dies. In many cases it’s straightforward because those due to inherit are adults, but for those of us with young children, meant we all made solid plans, just in case. 

My paternal grandparents, who died 20 odd years ago, died with 30-40 year old Wills written before their children had married and had children of their own. While their estates were fairly straightforward there was much discussion afterwards about whether they would have likely left things to grandchildren if they’d updated their Wills in old age. They both died of long term illnesses but I guess it didn’t occur to them to update their Wills when they got ill. 

Anyway, that was a very long winded and detailed way of saying that using the ‘free wills network’ is good if you need a simple Will and have a fairly straightforward estate. It’s probably not going to be sufficient if you have very complicated affairs, property overseas, etc. The solicitor you use, if you use the free Wills service, may charge you an additional fee if things get more complicated that the basic fee the charity pay to cover the basic Will cost. 

Also be wary of vague language, I know someone who was robbed out of an inheritance due to a basic Will not being specific enough about the exact item the individual was due to inherit. Eg the Will stated ‘I bequeath Jane Doe my antique bookcase’ and the family argued that the Will wasn’t specific enough and referred to a bookcase that was no longer in the deceased person’s house having been sold during an earlier house move, so ‘Jane Doe’ didn’t get the bookcase that everyone but the greedy family member who was the executor knew was supposed to go to her. It was petty and vindictive, but unfortunately meant that the wishes of the deceased weren’t met. 

The bookcase example does sound very petty! The factor which stopped me completing a will 15 years ago was that I imagined family members complaining about my choices! 😂

pjs493

katejo said:

pjs493 said:

I’ve now written two Wills. The first in contemplation of marriage to my husband, and the second after he died. Both times I used the ‘free wills network’. 

When my husband and I wrote our mirror Wills, we chose a charity we wanted to leave a modest amount of money to and through their Wills scheme they sent us a list of local law firms what subscribed to the scheme. We picked a local firm we were familiar with off the list, we had a short meeting in which they took details of our wishes, drafted the Wills, sent them to us for amendments, and then once we’d approved the final versions they were signed and witnessed. We recieved a copy for our records. 

We were under no obligation to leave a gift to the chosen charity, but it was a charity we felt passionately about so didn’t mind leaving a gift that exceeded the cost of writing up a basic Will. When my husband died and Probate had been granted I received a lovely letter from the charity, but the underlying message was that they knew my husband had died and left them a gift. They weren’t pushy and I’d already tried to contact their gifts team to find out how I could get an appropriate ‘receipt’ to keep with my records in my role as executor. Their bereavements team were very helpful and I received a condolence/thank you letter when I made the donation. 

When I wrote my second Will. I followed pretty much the same format, but chose a different charity (the charity I chose had supported me after the death of my husband). I had to pay the solicitor a small fee to do a digital ID check (I think it might have been £12). 

The ‘free Wills network’ will work for most people with fairly straightforward wishes. In my first case, my husband and I left everything to each other barring the charitable donation and a couple of sentimental bequests. They also included our, at that time unborn, children, and various other contingencies often known as a ‘disaster clause’. 

My new Will leaves everything to our two children with some items specifically left to each child, everything else is split evenly with my executors deciding what to sell and split the proceeds for and what unlisted items could be taken by one and something else taken by the other. Importantly, my new Will sets up a bare trust for my children in case I die before they turn 18, so their needs can be taken care of by my estate until they turn 18 and get their share. I’ve also spoken extensively to my siblings (who are the executors) so they know what I want them to spend money on, eg sell the house to pay for school fees, that sort of thing. 

I’ve also written some more detailed instructions that I’ve kept with the copy of my Will, and discussed with my siblings, that goes into more detail about my funeral wishes, sentimental items that are to be kept for the children until they’re old enough to decide to keep them or if they don’t care about them and want to flog them, etc. What to do with the dogs, etc. 

It feels more complicated this time around now that I’m on my own with underage children. When my husband and I wrote our mirror Wills, we did it because we knew it was a sensible move to have Wills, not because we ever though the Wills in that form would ever need to be used. It wouldn’t really have changed anything due to the rules of intestacy once we married, but it was still a good idea to make them. Now I’ve got the children to consider, etc. 

As an aside, because my husband’s death was so sudden and unexpected, no less than 14 people in my family made or updated their Wills. I guess everyone suddenly realised, it could happen to any of us so we ought to be prepared. We’ve also all had conversations about what happens if someone dies. In many cases it’s straightforward because those due to inherit are adults, but for those of us with young children, meant we all made solid plans, just in case. 

My paternal grandparents, who died 20 odd years ago, died with 30-40 year old Wills written before their children had married and had children of their own. While their estates were fairly straightforward there was much discussion afterwards about whether they would have likely left things to grandchildren if they’d updated their Wills in old age. They both died of long term illnesses but I guess it didn’t occur to them to update their Wills when they got ill. 

Anyway, that was a very long winded and detailed way of saying that using the ‘free wills network’ is good if you need a simple Will and have a fairly straightforward estate. It’s probably not going to be sufficient if you have very complicated affairs, property overseas, etc. The solicitor you use, if you use the free Wills service, may charge you an additional fee if things get more complicated that the basic fee the charity pay to cover the basic Will cost. 

Also be wary of vague language, I know someone who was robbed out of an inheritance due to a basic Will not being specific enough about the exact item the individual was due to inherit. Eg the Will stated ‘I bequeath Jane Doe my antique bookcase’ and the family argued that the Will wasn’t specific enough and referred to a bookcase that was no longer in the deceased person’s house having been sold during an earlier house move, so ‘Jane Doe’ didn’t get the bookcase that everyone but the greedy family member who was the executor knew was supposed to go to her. It was petty and vindictive, but unfortunately meant that the wishes of the deceased weren’t met. 

The bookcase example does sound very petty! The factor which stopped me completing a will 15 years ago was that I imagined family members complaining about my choices! 😂

Unfortunately, death, especially unexpected ones or those where someone feels they’ve not been left what they feel entitled to, can result in rather awful behaviour from some people. I’ve witnessed this first hand unfortunately. People become very greedy if they feel they can gain in some way. I’ve had relatives of my husband try to gain access to assets they feel entitled to despite my husband leaving everything to me (barring a few sentimental bequests to close friends and relatives and a charitable donation).

It’s one thing to want a sentimental item that once belonged to a departed friend or relative to remember them by. But I know of at least one case of an adult child, who didn’t inherit as they expected, to essentially commit burglary to get their hands on valuable items while the surviving spouse (step parent) was visiting the funeral director to make funeral plans. 

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks about your choices. It’s what you want that matters and make sure you choose an executor(s) who you trust to follow your instructions. 

lr1277

Regarding a charity and wills, I have no experience in this area, but have read 1-2 threads on the subject on this board.

Be wary of leaving a % of your estate to 1 or more charities. Some charities are very agressive in realising value for themselves from a bequest. I think I have seen instances (but can't remember the details) where a charity has forced an inappropriate sale of a property or other assets. Perhaps an executor is forced into a situation the deceased may not have wanted.

I suspect the advice about not contacting the charity before your own death was given so that you do not give the charity a heads up that money is coming their way, as they might scan death notices and then contact the executor wanting their share as quickly as possible.

So the first piece of advice I have seen advised is to leave a charity a fixed amount. Then they won't force the executor into any actions with which they are uncomfortable.

2nd piece of advice is have a bullet proof will drawn up that makes your executor's life easier. By that I mean a will drawn up by a paid for solicitor. It is upto you as to whether a will written during Will Week makes your executor's life easier.

3rd piece of advice is don't appoint the charity's legal team to be the executor of your estate, unless you are giving all your worldly goods to the charity.

You could also search the Death, Probate board on the keyword 'charity' and see if anything comes that informs any decisions you might make.

HTH

I tried the search I suggested and it is not as easy as I remember. I searched on 'charity'. Then when these results were returned, I clicked on Category. Then in the box in the top right hand side, I typed in 'death' then clicked on filter. Many results were returned. It is up to you as to how much time and effort you put into this research.

katejo

lr1277 said:

Regarding a charity and wills, I have no experience in this area, but have read 1-2 threads on the subject on this board.

Be wary of leaving a % of your estate to 1 or more charities. Some charities are very agressive in realising value for themselves from a bequest. I think I have seen instances (but can't remember the details) where a charity has forced an inappropriate sale of a property or other assets. Perhaps an executor is forced into a situation the deceased may not have wanted.

I suspect the advice about not contacting the charity before your own death was given so that you do not give the charity a heads up that money is coming their way, as they might scan death notices and then contact the executor wanting their share as quickly as possible.

So the first piece of advice I have seen advised is to leave a charity a fixed amount. Then they won't force the executor into any actions with which they are uncomfortable.

2nd piece of advice is have a bullet proof will drawn up that makes your executor's life easier. By that I mean a will drawn up by a paid for solicitor. It is upto you as to whether a will written during Will Week makes your executor's life easier.

3rd piece of advice is don't appoint the charity's legal team to be the executor of your estate, unless you are giving all your worldly goods to the charity.

You could also search the Death, Probate board on the keyword 'charity' and see if anything comes that informs any decisions you might make.

HTH

I tried the search I suggested and it is not as easy as I remember. I searched on 'charity'. Then when these results were returned, I clicked on Category. Then in the box in the top right hand side, I typed in 'death' then clicked on filter. Many results were returned. It is up to you as to how much time and effort you put into this research.

Yes that is how I interpreted the advice about not informing the charity in advance. Useful tip about a fixed amount. I think I was going to do that anyway. I am comparing the 'free will' options with using a paid solicitor. 

JGB1955

The problem with leaving a charity a 'fixed amount' is that there may be nothing left for residual (possibly family/friends)  beneficiaries.  Care/legal/tax costs can take their toll on finances.

Malthusian

JGB1955 said:

The problem with leaving a charity a 'fixed amount' is that there may be nothing left for residual (possibly family/friends)  beneficiaries.

Unless you make the fixed £ amount to charity contingent on the total estate value being over a certain size. 

Regarding the advice not to contact the charities before your death: in addition to the benefits others have mentioned, it prevents them hounding you with requests to donate money in life.

katejo said:

The bookcase example does sound very petty! The factor which stopped me completing a will 15 years ago was that I imagined family members complaining about my choices! 😂

Not completing a Will doesn't prevent arguments over your estate. It is more likely to make them worse. It may mean that, for example, instead of an antique bookcase going to the desired beneficiary, the beneficiaries under intestacy all argue about who should get it and how much their shares of the estate should be adjusted as a result.

If you want one of your relatives to have a particular bookcase, then give it to them and buy another one. Possession is nine-tenths of the law when it comes to items that are not valuable enough to be worth suing over.

The Will pjs refers to wasn't vague (based on the info given), the executor played legal chicken with Jane Doe and won. They gambled that she wouldn't sue and she didn't, which was probably sensible. If you can blame the testator(ix) for anything, it was either appointing the wrong executor or appointing them sole executor. It is less likely they would have got away with it if they did not have sole control over the distribution.