Can a private parking operator only process an appeal from the driver?

PlsDontMakeMePay

Thanks very much for the prompt response @Gr1pr. I'll keep up with the complaints and draft the POPLA appeal, cheers.

Ahh of course my newbie status explains it

KeithP

PlsDontMakeMePay said:

...I can't figure out how to edit/delete posts.

Gr1pr said:

Ps, newbies can't edit posts until it changes from Newbie to Forumite 

...and as if by magic, the OP's status has suddenly changed to Forumite.  

PlsDontMakeMePay

I have been compiling my POPLA appeal and I have just found the following in section 13 (This seems to be updated from the 2017 era appeals I have been looking at so far):

"13.1 The driver must have the chance to consider the Terms and Conditions before entering into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, the driver decides not to park but chooses to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable consideration period to leave, before the driver can be bound by your parking contract. The amount of time in these instances will vary dependant on site size and type but it must be a minimum of 5 minutes.

13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place."

Does that mean that parkers only have a single grace period if they choose to park?

In this case where the car park is a "2 hour max", can I lean into the fact that it would be unfair for the timer to start as soon as the car enters the car park, if the car chooses to stay. There would be no clear indication of when they needed to leave, no opportunity to compensate for the time taken to consider the terms, no ticket from a machine to tell the user how long they actually have etc... 

Grizebeck

dont over think it its just a tin pot small firm

Gr1pr

It means that 13.1 is the consideration period that you think may be added to the parking time, but when a driver chooses to stay and considered parked instead of stopped, that consideration time is absorbed into the parking time, which then starts at the point of entry 

The grace period time is time allowed at the end of the parking session, in order to leave the site and be clocked out at the exit 

In practice it may mean the following in the current CoP

The driver enters, stops ( not parked per se. ) gets out and reads the signs ( offer and consideration. ) , declines to park and leaves promptly, say in 5 minutes, so 13.1 applied due to not accepting the offer and leaving , so not a grace period, but a consideration time 

Or 

The driver enters, stops, reads the signs ( consideration ) and decides to stay, accepting the offer, making payment if necessary, ( perhaps £2 for 2 hours , or is free for 2 hours . ) , parks or is considered to be parked ( no longer stopped. ) and goes about their business. at the end of the session which now actually started on entry they have a grace period of a minimum of 10 minutes to leave, passing the exit point and possibly being snapped by a camera too.  The total time onsite is calculated by computers, so if it was 2 hours and eleven or more minutes then the computer flags a breach, but doesn't for 2 hours and 9 minutes or less

The above considered the use of both consideration time at the start of the session, plus the time onsite, plus the absorption of the consideration time into the total time onsite, including the grace period at the end 

Offer, consideration, acceptance ( breach flagged if its there. ) , a parking contract by way of conduct 


But it's a case of drafting a bespoke Popla appeal such that the Claimants may chuck in the towel, putting it into the too difficult pile, or you having a nugget that the assessor will use to uphold the appeal 

Bear in mind that a decade ago Barry Beavis overstayed on a 2 hour free to park car park, ( time on site, not parking time. ) he lost in court, so the arguments were used up in court, the last hearing was in the Supreme Court in 2015

PlsDontMakeMePay

Thanks for the great explanation Gr1pr. I'll certainly contest the grace period in my appeal. 

I also think I have a good case on the lack of entry signage which isn't  “A standard form of entrance sign”

Gr1pr

Bear in mind that that entranceway sign is a landowner sign, nothing to do with any parking company , so plan A is to complain about the PCNs to that landowner or managing agent for the site 

Parking companies have to have their own signs, can't see any in that picture at the entrance, just the one on the camera pole plus the distant others around the car park, , but the BPA CoP has rules about signs, including entrance signs 

Fruitcake

... and look how high up the sign is inside the car park. There is no way the Ts and Cs could be read without the use of a stepladder.

KeithP

As @LDast pointed out a couple of weeks ago, there are several 'St Peters' car parks dotted around the country.

He also pointed out that the location stated on the PCN was insufficient to identify the place.

Where exactly is your problem car park?

PlsDontMakeMePay

@Gr1pr Ah that's good to know I am still convinced that they are not meeting the entry sign requirement but I will snap more pictures highlighting this that are a little inside the carpark

@Fruitcake Yep! It's impossible. I've been sure to lean into that in my appeal too 

@KeithP It is on google as "NCP Northampton St Peters Way" (NCP being the pervious operator) It changed operators a good 6 months ago I think  https://maps.app.goo.gl/pckYFGPVc1RQaTza8

I have mentioned in my appeal that the location stated in the PCN is very vague and does not describe the parking location in question as required by PoFA. I'm unsure if there is any thing more I can get out of that though...