Guarantee on Sons Rent

GrumpyDil

One quick question to ask. Was the guarantor agreement executed properly as a deed? Reason for asking is that during Covid I signed three guarantor agreements but not executed as a deed. Technically that would have made any attempts to enforce the agreement very problematic. 

Bookworm105

propertyrental said:

Bookworm105 said:

Ayr_Rage said:

How is she managing to stay in the property have sold all her worldly goods?

The agreement only ends when she moves out, I fear you will be liable until that day comes.

the key issue is about who has OP guaranteed. Their named son only or "the tenancy".

If they are both 'on the rent book' I assume this is a 'joint and several tenancy in which case there is no 'his share/her share' - they are each equally liable for the full rent. And almost certainly, so are you (though this depends on the wording of the guarantee you signed which we cannot see). So the guarantee is unlikely to be just in son's name.

as i said: the key issue is about who has OP guaranteed
perfectly possible for a guarantee to relate to only one party of a joint tenancy as the guarantee is a separate "contract" to that of the tenancy
many university parents have now woken up to that fact 

Guarantors for private renters - Shelter England

Brie

Would the LL be allowed to keep the deposit? Assuming there is no damage to the flat.

silvercar

Brie said:

Would the LL be allowed to keep the deposit? Assuming there is no damage to the flat.

If the tenancy agreement allows for the deposit to be used against rent arrears.

doodling

Hi,

If the guarantee is valid and properly executed then, depending in the personalities involved and whether they have any money, it might be worth you or your son pointing out to the girlfriend that you will be suing her for the money you have had to pay out as a result of the guarantee (and pointing out that that might include double rent if the landlord is permitted to charge it).

The girlfriend might be under the naïve assumption that since your son will be in another country then he won't be able to do anything whilst in reality it will be you who has suffered the loss and would be entitled to claim that back from her.

Of course, if the girlfriend has no money and doesn't care about CCJs then, assuming the guarantee is valid and properly executed, there isn't much you can do - that is the risk you take when you guarantee a tenancy.

As a side question, did the girlfriends parents also guarantee the tenancy?  If they did then making yourself look less appealing as a target for court action than them might also work (i.e. see if you can pull off a "I have no money but have excellent legal representation" look when dealing with the landlord) - unfortunately the odds of success with that approach are low however.

WellKnownSid

doodling said:

if you can pull off a "I have no money but have excellent legal representation" look when dealing with the landlord) - unfortunately the odds of success with that approach are low however.

Ah, the “I have no money and it’s only thanks to my best friend and next door neighbour who is a barrister that I’m even arguing the matter” trick! 😄

I have signed two rental guarantees in the past. Both had very clear terms limiting both time and amount.

lr1277

I am confused on certain points.

Who initiated the end of tenancy agreement? The landlord or the tenants? If the tenants then (I am guessing) the now ex invalidated the termination by deciding to stay. Leaving somebody on the hook for the rent and also there should be no eviction. If the landlord initiated the end of tenancy, then there might be an eviction and rent will have to be paid till the property is vacant.

Assuming the guarantee is valid and the tenants initated and then cancelled the end of tenancy, then either you or the now ex should be paying the rent. And if it is you, you are liable till the ex moves out whch could be in many months/years. Unless you do as @doodling suggests and sue the ex for any rent payments you have to make.But if the ex doesn't have money to pay the rent, what are the chances you are going to get any money back from the ex?

youth_leader

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this and hope you can find a satisfactory solution.  You've prompted me to find out about my daughter and her boyfriend's tenancy agreement, I agreed to be guarantor for them.

_Penny_Dreadful

propertyrental said:

Bookworm105 said:

Ayr_Rage said:

How is she managing to stay in the property have sold all her worldly goods?

The agreement only ends when she moves out, I fear you will be liable until that day comes.

the key issue is about who has OP guaranteed. Their named son only or "the tenancy".

If they are both 'on the rent book' I assume this is a 'joint and several tenancy in which case there is no 'his share/her share' - they are each equally liable for the full rent. And almost certainly, so are you (though this depends on the wording of the guarantee you signed which we cannot see). So the guarantee is unlikely to be just in son's name.

You should also be aware (as should she) that if, having given proper notice, one or both joint tenants fail to vacate the landlord can claim double rent.

Distress For Rent Act 1737 S18 & Landlord and Tenant Act 1730 S1(Double rent if tenant stays after giving notice) plus explanation here
shelter.org.uk/ explanation of mesne profits /double rent.

Being a pedant it is not double rent, it is mesne (pronounced mean) profits that are an amount equivalent to twice the rent. The important distinction being that mesne profits are due from the former tenant, who is now a trespasser, with the right of immediate occupation, where no permission has been given for that occupation unlike a tenant from whom rent is due who has both the right to immediate occupation and permission given for that occupation. 

_Penny_Dreadful

Seawych said:

Hey! I am a guarantor on my son’s flat which he shares with his girlfriend. Both are on the rent book. They were due to move overseas this month and notice was given with move out date being last week. Having sold all their worldly goods his partner has decided that she does not want to go and is planning on staying in the flat until she is evicted so the council will home her and their child. The landlord has made a claim against me as guarantor and says I will be liable for all eviction costs and any outstanding rent that is accrued until eviction and has said that he will not be returning their deposit. There is a rental agent involved who is not being particularly helpful. As notice was given, all rents paid on time and technically the rental agreement being ended can I still be held liable? Son’s partner is being less than helpful and shows no interest in doing the right thing and moving out. I do not want to see the landlord out of pocket but I'm acutely aware that the eviction process can be a very protracted process and am concerned about having to find the money for all the costs.

As @theartfullodger has pointed out, many guarantees turn out to be unenforceable.  Many are not executed as deeds and often a guarantee ceases to be enforceable when there is a material change to the contract eg the guarantor agreed to guarantee the contract when the rent was £500pcm and the landlord increases the rent to £1000pcm, that would be a material change. 

The tenancy has ended, it happened when one or both the joint tenants gave valid notice to end the tenancy. That sounds like a material change in the contract to me and therefore the end of what you were guaranteeing. The tenancy is over, what the ex-girlfriend is doing is called, “holding over,” and she is a trespasser. Sucks for the landlord and it will suck even more for her when the landlord comes after her for mesne profits. 

The letting agent isn’t going to help you. Their contact is with the landlord and the landlord pays them as his/her representative.  Even so I doubt many letting agents would be of much use to any party in this situation as most seem to only be able to operate when things are a bland, synthetic vanilla.