Freeholder demanding documents RTM

StevieB99

Can anyone please help?

Background is we took over the Right to manage our building in 2018. We have an extremwly aggressive freeholder. Google reviews are 1 star over 100's of reviews.

The house is converted to 4 flats. 2 rented, 2 owner occupied, 4 residents total

I have received a demand for the following documents. They have stated we have 30 days to comply. Unfortunately I have only just received the letter and have 2 weeks left.

Building insurance certificate(we have)
full list of members(I presume this is the members of the RTM?)
Up to date fire risk assessment
Asbestos report(Apparently we have some asbestos in the roof. last report says we have been re-inspected, regulation 4-(this was last done 7 years ago)
Public indemnity policy(would this be in our buildings insurance?)
EICR(I understand this has to be done every 5 years?-is this for the whole building or just the rented out flats?)

If anyone can help as i'm not sure what the law states. Do I legally have to provide all these to the freeholder?

I have made an appointment with the leasehold advisory service but not until July the 1st.

On a separate note we will be looking to buy the freehold if anyone can advise a good solicitor.

Thanks in advance

StevieB99

Just to confirm I have read my lease and all it states is the building must be insured. I cannot see anything referring to the above 'covenants'. Obviously it states 'to keep the property in good repair. 

NameUnavailable

Not an expert here but I don't think there's a mandatory period for fire and asbestos reports - asbestos applies to common areas so if the last report said it's only in the roof (roof space?) then I'm guessing that's not a common area.

EICR is every 5 years and would be for the electrics in the communal areas only (it's up to individual leaseholders to get their own reports if they want/need to).

Public liability insurance isn't a legal requirement - probably best checking that with whoever does the building insurance. Probably worth buying if not included.

So, I would respond with a copy of the insurance and list of RTM members and state that there's no need in your opinion for another asbestos report and you will send a copy of the electric report as and when you carry out the next one.

(should caveat the above to say unless the lease's state otherwise).

eddddy

StevieB99 said:

Just to confirm I have read my lease and all it states is the building must be insured. I cannot see anything referring to the above 'covenants'. Obviously it states 'to keep the property in good repair. 

In simple terms, the RTM company has to carry-out their obligations as stated in the lease - and as stated by the law.

The law requires: Fire Risk Assessment, Asbestos Report (for common areas), EICR (for common areas)


I'm no expert on this, but I believe the law says:

• Fire Risk Assessments have to be done 'regularly' ('regularly' is not defined - but you'd need to justify why you haven't done it for the last X years.)

• If asbestos exists in the common parts of the building, it should be surveyed annually, to check on it's condition

• EICR for common areas - every 5 years

FWIW, I've seen companies advertise that they'll do Fire Risk Assessments, Asbestos Reports etc within 24 hours (presumably for people like yourself, who have got into a tight corner) - but I suspect they'll charge eye-watering fees.


Do you know why the freeholder is chasing you on this? Are they simply trying to protect their investment in the building, or do they have some other motive?




Edit to add..

If the roof isn't demised to any individual flat, I believe it counts as a 'common area' for the purposes of an asbestos survey - even if leaseholders don't have routine access to it.

gm0

The list doesn't on its face seem unreasonable.  You can of course check and quibble each one as much as you like. That will help build or further sap goodwill come the negotiation and legal dance around valuation tribunal and freehold purchase process.

Most of these are estate management obligations and/or well proven practices in doing that.  How good the fit of each one is to your size, nature and condition of building is of course the area of doubt creeping in.

But they don't want to debate priorities with you - nor you with them. 

They are simply asking "do you have and have you done a,b,c". Evidence please.  Protective of their interest. Better this way than dialogue actually.  Why on earth would it be in their interests to take on blind trust that you had arranged buildings insurance ?  Or done fire inspection ?  You have naturally.  You are doing the job under RTM

Freeholders MA if appointed by them would (with a sensible freeholder) be commissioned to be discharging most of these on some planned frequency.  Thats the debateable bit.  They would have as an agency PI.  And do fire inspection. And certainly have and renew buildings insurance annually etc.  

List of leaseholders, proxies, contact info for service charge admin.  Wanting to sync this list occasionally in order for the freeholder to write to lessees as needed is a fairly reasonable ask.

The freeholder MA would have been maintaining this list prior to RTM via service charge admin not from LR. 
You can have an argument about personal data protection and leasehold law if you want to prevent them knowing who the lessees and proxies are without them going and getting it periodically from LR. But I would choose not to be difficult over it for no particularly good reason.  They can simply write to each flat anyway if they want to send a "don't buy the freehold because xyz - lobbying letter" pre-decision. Or download current registered title leaseholders from LR.  Which is just annoying.  It doesn't prevent them knowing.

Generally what is sauce for the freeholder + agent goose prior is also sauce for your RTM gander. 

You don't get to not bother just because you feel like it via RTM.  If you want that.  Buy the freehold and do as you please - confined only by the terms of any PI insurance you have to avoid a pesky leaseholder sueing after an electrical fire or a load of asbestos dropping through their ceiling. Or not. And wing it.  Your democracy.  Your call. Consequences flow.   Within limits you can choose the frequency of certain regular inspection items. 

So there is some flex you can use there for anything not yet done - and not currently planned since 2018

A commercial MA would definitely have PI themselves absent incompetence (and so should your RTM (which will own freehold later to protect directors from personal liability issues.  Fire safety. Check. 

Electrical safety (check-ish) - not sure that needs to be super frequent for the BNO/small landlord communal supply and collective wiring. 

Asbestos for damage/condition inspection now and then doesn't on its face seem an unreasonable thing either. You all live in it. Again a question of what drives the frequency of inspection.

Asking to see evidenced outcomes that you are "doing the work" under RTM having taken over s completely reasonable.  There will be fluff at the edges on telling them "no" or not yet but planned in 202x to specifics  - but the core idea is sound.

Until you buy it off them at the correct to legislation on leasehold at the time value (and there is the unknown on the best time to do that - marriage value, lease lengths etc.  Legal and lease advice on that).

In fact in a way - this is actually HELPFUL to your RTM + Freehold ambition. 

The "common enemy" has asked for evidence that a number of "correct things" are in fact happening.

Perhaps this will help establish with the leaseholder group that these things DO happen at a frequency.  And some money is occasionally spent on doing this with the relevant trades to effect it.  Let the freeholder take the rap.  And establish good habits and practices for the start of the share of freehold.  That is a win wIn.

People are quite willing to skip almost anything to save a few quid this year and then without blinking get all whiny when the unexpected thing happens - a massive financial loss occurs and there is no insured or other recourse on the topic due to their earlier wilful intransigence about good practice and insurance conditions.

StevieB99

Thanks both.

The freeholder is well known for it's harassment and intimidation tactics. I have no interest in bending over for them. I will provide them with what I need to by law and nothing else.

They have over the years attempted to extort 10's of £1000's from myself hence the rtm. This is their business model.

They are well documented with 100's of 1 star reviews with literally zero good ones. i don't want to mention their name on here. I have no interest in making it 'good' with them as they have proved to be in my opinion fraudulent.

Anyway.

public indemnity is included in our buildings insurance.
Fire risk assessment i have read is only legally necessary with 5 or more individuals living in the property. We have 4. I understand this can be done by a responsible person anyway and no legal requirement to get a full report from a proffesional. We have a log book etc with a fire check as it is obviously prudent.
There is no asbestos in the common area. I will seek advice.
EICR was done 5.5 years ago. I will arrange for it to be done.This is a tiny area with one flight of stairs. It has dual fire alarms and lights etc. I don't see an issue here.
RTM members are the same and they were informed previously when we took over.

 I think my best course of action is to email back stating here is a copy of our insurance and the property is being well managed.I have abided by the lease covenants etc.

As I say we are well past acting reasonably with the freeholder. I will action the collective enfranchisement tomorrow.

Thanks

panther2365

As a matter of interest who is your freeholder. I ask as we have just been asked the same questions in the same order, our freeholder is Long Term Reversions who use Pier as their interface

JP26

Same here! Clearly Pier are on a rampage of sending these out. I had the same requests.