Trace Debt Recovery - could it go to court?

fisherjim

elliot5200 said:

 Just to mention, although it's a Travelodge site, Ocean Parking own that whole area (it's Wisemore Central, Walsall), so hopefully Travelodge are still the correct people to write to?

I cannot for the life of me understand why people think that two bit parking companies own such sites!

This retail and leisure site is owned by Cordwell Property Group Ltd

https://www.cordwellproperty.co.uk/leisure

https://planning.walsall.gov.uk/swift/MediaTemp/64255-84704.PDF

It took me two minutes.

elliot5200

fisherjim said:

elliot5200 said:

 Just to mention, although it's a Travelodge site, Ocean Parking own that whole area (it's Wisemore Central, Walsall), so hopefully Travelodge are still the correct people to write to?

I cannot for the life of me understand why people think that two bit parking companies own such sites!

This retail and leisure site is owned by Cordwell Property Group Ltd

https://www.cordwellproperty.co.uk/leisure

https://planning.walsall.gov.uk/swift/MediaTemp/64255-84704.PDF

It took me two minutes.

Ah, thanks for this! Yeah, sorry, should have seen this. So do you think it's worth me contacting both Travelodge AND Cordwell Property Group? I just can't imagine the latter would be interesting in replying to me if I fill in their online form!

Was gonna send something like this to both unless you have a better template:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I recently received a Parking Charge for parking in your Travelodge car park (Wisemore Central, Walsall) after staying in the hotel (booking reference xx).

 

On the day, I had tried to pay for parking by ringing the phone number displayed at the Travelodge desk (attached). The sign said: ‘Important notice for all Travelodge Guests regarding the Car Park!’ It gave the phone number to pay for parking as: 02030460010.

 

When I rang that number, I was then presented with the following recorded message: “Welcome to Ringo. ‘Unfortunately our IDR service is unavailable for this number. Please download our app or visit MyRingo.com”. You can try this for yourself now, and you’ll get the same response.

 

It was therefore not possible for me to pay by phone and I wasn’t able to download apps on my phone either. There was no one at the desk to help.

 

I later got a parking fine for £60 by Ocean Parking, which rose to £100 after I appealed and lost (their reply, also attached). I also appealed via POPLA and am happy to provide correspondence of this. It turned out the phone number on the Travelodge sign was wrong, as in signage around the car park, the 24 hour support phone number was listed as ‘0330 311 2999’ instead (this is also listed on Ocean Parking’s website: https://www.oceanparking.co.uk/contact/). I’ve also attached an image of the sign in the car park for reference, as well as my parking fine and would be happy to supply any additional evidence you need.

 

I feel this is very unfair as I had tried to pay repeatedly but kept getting that same error message about an IDR being unavailable, which I didn’t understand and there was no one at the desk to help. It transpired that Travelodge were displaying an incorrect or outdated number. I’ve now had a letter from Trace Debt Recovery (also attached) demanding £170 and am getting really stressed.

 

I am a loyal customer at Travelodge but this experience has really upset me.

 

I look forward to a response from you on this and would hope to receive reimbursement for the above costs.

 

Many thanks

xx

Gr1pr

The Ocean parking charge notice was originally £100 , not £60. Its not a fine either, Magistrates issue fines ( its an invoice. )

Ocean parking don't own any land AFAIK, they are parking contractors 

It was discounted by 40% for early settlement, before reverting back to the full charge of £100

elliot5200

I understand that. Just checking I'm doing the right approach by contacting both Travelodge AND Cordwell Property Group though? I'll fill in the online contact forms with the letter I wrote above. Does this sound ok? Please let me know if you have a better letter suggestion

I'm just cynical about whether Cordwell would even bother replying to me

Gr1pr

I suggest that you make the changes I highlighted such that your letter reflects the true situation and figures and terminology, mainly the I LATER paragraph, change the last statement to what you want, not reimbursement, but a full cancellation of the PCN ( reference xxxxxxx. ) as soon as possible, and only then send to both 

They most definitely won't reply if you miss either out 

The cynicism is irrelevant , everyone on here will tell you that plan A is always the best option, complaining to the business or landowner and getting it cancelled ASAP 

My cynicism is such that I would persevere until I have achieved my goals, regardless , and the people I am contacting will get it done just to get me off their backs

elliot5200

Thank you! My question is can Cordwell Property / Travelodge still cancel the PCN now that it has gone to Trace debt recovery? The PCN reference number doesn't work online anymore (there's only a record of it when you ring up Ocean and speak to an agent, and they tell you they can't do anything from their end)

I've made your edits:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I recently received a Parking Charge for parking in your Travelodge car park (Wisemore Central, Walsall) after staying in the hotel (booking reference xx).

 

On the day, I had tried to pay for parking by ringing the phone number displayed at the Travelodge desk (attached). The sign said: ‘Important notice for all Travelodge Guests regarding the Car Park!’ It gave the phone number to pay for parking as: 02030460010.

 

When I rang that number, I was then presented with the following recorded message: “Welcome to Ringo. ‘Unfortunately our IDR service is unavailable for this number. Please download our app or visit MyRingo.com”. You can try this for yourself now, and you’ll get the same response.

 

It was therefore not possible for me to pay by phone and I wasn’t able to download apps on my phone either. There was no one at the desk to help.

 

I later got a parking fine invoice (PCN ref xxx) for £60 by Ocean Parking, which rose to £100 after which I appealed and lost (their reply, also attached). I also appealed via POPLA and am happy to provide correspondence of this. It turned out the phone number on the Travelodge sign was wrong, as in signage around the car park, the 24 hour support phone number was listed as ‘0330 311 2999’ instead (this is also listed on Ocean Parking’s website: https://www.oceanparking.co.uk/contact/). I’ve also attached an image of the sign in the car park for reference, as well as my parking fine and would be happy to supply any additional evidence you need.

 

I feel this is very unfair as I had tried to pay repeatedly but kept getting that same error message about an IDR being unavailable, which I didn’t understand and there was no one at the desk to help. It transpired that Travelodge were displaying an incorrect or outdated number. I’ve now had a letter from Trace Debt Recovery (also attached) demanding £170 and am getting really stressed.

 

I am a loyal customer at Travelodge but this experience has really upset me.

 

I look forward to a response from you on this and would hope to receive reimbursement for the above costs and that you can urgently get in touch with Ocean Parking to cancel the PCN (ref xx).

 

Many thanks

xx

And in the meantime, I guess it's just a case of sitting back and waiting for another threatening letter from Trace?!

Gr1pr

We have not seen the contract between Cordwell and Ocean, or the managing agent hired by Cordwell and Ocean, so we cannot really answer your question 

Usually either party can cancel a PCN and that topic should be in that contract that we have not seen, because they are not going to disclose it unless this case gets to court ( especially because you failed to getra copy from POPLA at the second stage appeal AFAIK. )

If you do have a copy from a Popla appeal evidence pack from Ocean parking, please share it 

The fact that Ocean parking tasked Trace has no bearing on the case and debt collectors are powerless so you cannot negotiate with them because they will only do what the parking company tells them to do, which is to obtain their full £100 by empty threats etc 

I am disregarding anything to do with Trace, it has no bearing on the advice that you are being given 

Nobody cares if they or any other debt collectors send pointless letters in the future, ignore them 

Deal with the organ grinder and the promoter who hired the organ grinder, not the foolish powerless dancing monkey on the chain 

Lastly, there is still the word fine in the last sentence of that altered paragraph , Parking charge would be better 

Edit, I agree with the reply below too, its a good idea for a tougher response, if you are going to respond, polite but very, very firm, demanding more information and a cancellation 

LDast

It's all a bit fluffy and woke to be honest. You should let Travelodge know how angry and upset you are about being invoiced by their agent for £100 when you have been a loyal customer. Remind them that the cost to their business of not only losing you as a long-standing customer, but also all your relatives, friends and acquaintances.

What is with the "many thanks" and seriously hope you do not include the love and kisses at the end? You start the letter formally, so you need to end it formally with "Yours faithfully".

You should be angry with them. Just being "stressed" is an understatement. You should be letting them know that as they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent, you will hold them liable for any future court action by Ocean Parking as you will have the option for a Part 20 Counter Claim for harassment and breach of your GDPR should it progress that far.

Be angry at the fob-off you had. Ask them who is the monkey and who is the organ grinder in their contractual relationship with Ocean Parking if they are unable to tell their agent to cancel an unfair PCN issued to one of their loyal (until now) customers.

Or, you can just to as advised by @Coupon-mad and simply ignore any debt collection letters and wait for them to give up as the are not actually litigious.

elliot5200

Here's a redacted copy of Ocean's contract with the Landowner from the POPLA appeal. Annoyingly, they blacked out the landowner's name but from the last screenshot you can see the landowner's name is '... National' and they are based on the 12th Floor in '... Square' in Birmingham. However, this doesn't match with the contact name/details for Cordwell (unless they've changed ownership since the contract was drafted).
Are you 100% sure Cordwell is the landowner? 

Note: Anchor is the old name for Ocean Parking - for some reason they havent changed it over on the contract 

fisherjim

This site has cropped up on here time and time again do a search.

Cordwell are still the owners but they don't get into trivial matters of day to day running they leave that up to managing agents that is who is redacted on he contract, Ocean obviously don't want you contacting them and getting them a bad name!

Just to be totally boring here are the original car park planning details:

https://planning.walsall.gov.uk/swift/MediaTemp/66362-137402.pdf

From GSV the signage is rubbish too