When does a private treaty sale end?

GervisLooper

I have been going back and forth for days now with one or more other interested parties.

My offers are upped within a few hours but seems to be slowing down a bit in terms of response time.

I can't just keep increasing forever so I am wondering how do private treaties reach their conclusion?

With bricks and mortar and ebay auctions there is an end date but I see no such date on this sale.

So how will it end? The seller could just keep it on for as long as they want while there are people vying to outbid one another so I just have to keep upping the bid indefinitely until things go quiet and I am the last man standing?

Bookworm105

correct, it keeps going until the vendor decides to stop

"private treaty" is simply the formal wording to describe the normal house selling process. The vendor puts the property on the market and waits for offers to come in. At what point the vendor decides they have received the "best" offer, and therefore takes it off the market and proceeds to sale is entirely their decision based on how keen they think the competing parties are to continue outbidding each other.

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

If you have not set a ceiling price in your own mind, at which point you send your final offer and then walk away, never to look back. Are you approaching house buying in entirely the wrong way?

GervisLooper

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

MeteredOut

GervisLooper said:

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

Have you asked them?

So long as you (or anyone else) is regularly putting in increased offers, the vendor has no reason to stop things. You need to make it clear when you've made your best and final offer, even if they've not asked for it. Then be ready to walk away.

GervisLooper

MeteredOut said:

GervisLooper said:

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

Have you asked them?

So long as you (or anyone else) is regularly putting in increased offers, the vendor has no reason to stop things. You need to make it clear when you've made your best and final offer, even if they've not asked for it. Then be ready to walk away.

No, I haven't.

It doesn't make a difference really though does it? Whatever I say or don't say it all depends on if someone else is outbidding me.

I have only been putting in increased offers because one or more other people have. If they drop out I will naturally not bid any more if I am the high bidder and as such the vendor would want to close out the sale if no more came in.

What I mean is 'threatening' to walk away is meaningless if someone else comes along and outbids me isn't it?

Bookworm105

GervisLooper said:

MeteredOut said:

GervisLooper said:

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

Have you asked them?

So long as you (or anyone else) is regularly putting in increased offers, the vendor has no reason to stop things. You need to make it clear when you've made your best and final offer, even if they've not asked for it. Then be ready to walk away.

No, I haven't.

It doesn't make a difference really though does it? Whatever I say or don't say it all depends on if someone else is outbidding me.

I have only been putting in increased offers because one or more other people have. If they drop out I will naturally not bid any more if I am the high bidder and as such the vendor would want to close out the sale if no more came in.

What I mean is 'threatening' to walk away is meaningless if someone else comes along and outbids me isn't it?

you seem very naive?
You imply you think eBay is "better", yet even there if bids keep coming in, then the auction automatically continues as ebay just keeps resetting to a 30 second countdown.

Have you ever been to an actual auction, of course bidders keep going until last one standing, that is the whole point.  Bidders drop out either because they don't have the money to bid higher, or they decide it is simply not "worth" paying more, the auction has "tested the market" in the most perfect way.

The fact you have been returning with increased offers gives the seller confidence you have not yet reached your ceiling and will keep going. Why on earth do you think they would initiate closing the deal given that scenario!

Look at your finances, know what your ceiling is and offer it.
Then walk away if it does not secure it. Don't threaten, act.

The job of the EA (if there is one) is to come back at you and suggest "another £x will sway it". The point of the exercise is to convince the EA you are at your max and there is no +£x left to bid with, so they will lose a ready to proceed buyer if they continue playing games with you. Make the EA pressure the vendor, not you.

Don't play the bidding war given you find it frustrating. You know what the asking price is, you know what other properties are on the market at that price. Decide your max and stick to it.

If you do buy it, by the time you come to sell, the property will probably have increased in value making the "saving" you got by bidding under your max look like chicken feed. The first property I bought I offered 73K against 75k asking, it was rejected. I made one and only "final" offer of 74k and we agreed on it. I had 2 others I could have bought, but this was my #1 and it was at my (then) ceiling. I sold it many years later for 300k and looking back now I laugh at how much of a failure I felt at the time for having "only" got 1k off asking. that 1k "extra" paid was nothing within a few years, and irrelevant in mortgage repayment terms as I was at my max borrowing   

Albermarle

GervisLooper said:

MeteredOut said:

GervisLooper said:

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

Have you asked them?

So long as you (or anyone else) is regularly putting in increased offers, the vendor has no reason to stop things. You need to make it clear when you've made your best and final offer, even if they've not asked for it. Then be ready to walk away.

No, I haven't.

It doesn't make a difference really though does it? Whatever I say or don't say it all depends on if someone else is outbidding me.

I have only been putting in increased offers because one or more other people have. If they drop out I will naturally not bid any more if I am the high bidder and as such the vendor would want to close out the sale if no more came in.

What I mean is 'threatening' to walk away is meaningless if someone else comes along and outbids me isn't it?

Do not forget the price is not the only thing vendors and EA's look at. Proceedability is also key. A buyer with no chain and a decent deposit will inspire more confidence than someone who needs to sell their house/is in a chain and/or has only small deposit .

GervisLooper

Albermarle said:

GervisLooper said:

MeteredOut said:

GervisLooper said:

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

Have you asked them?

So long as you (or anyone else) is regularly putting in increased offers, the vendor has no reason to stop things. You need to make it clear when you've made your best and final offer, even if they've not asked for it. Then be ready to walk away.

No, I haven't.

It doesn't make a difference really though does it? Whatever I say or don't say it all depends on if someone else is outbidding me.

I have only been putting in increased offers because one or more other people have. If they drop out I will naturally not bid any more if I am the high bidder and as such the vendor would want to close out the sale if no more came in.

What I mean is 'threatening' to walk away is meaningless if someone else comes along and outbids me isn't it?

Do not forget the price is not the only thing vendors and EA's look at. Proceedability is also key. A buyer with no chain and a decent deposit will inspire more confidence than someone who needs to sell their house/is in a chain and/or has only small deposit .

This is bidding for land so not the big sums that houses will be going for and I asked out the outset if the other bidder was cash buyer and they said yes. Probably easy for most to be for these lower amounts compared to houses.

GervisLooper

Bookworm105 said:

GervisLooper said:

MeteredOut said:

GervisLooper said:

Bookworm105 said:

(with, if applicable, an estate agent pressuring them to accept so the EA gets their commission asap) 

That could be a saving grace in this case then.

Is there any way to get an idea from the EA if it is reaching the best and final offers phase?

Have you asked them?

So long as you (or anyone else) is regularly putting in increased offers, the vendor has no reason to stop things. You need to make it clear when you've made your best and final offer, even if they've not asked for it. Then be ready to walk away.

No, I haven't.

It doesn't make a difference really though does it? Whatever I say or don't say it all depends on if someone else is outbidding me.

I have only been putting in increased offers because one or more other people have. If they drop out I will naturally not bid any more if I am the high bidder and as such the vendor would want to close out the sale if no more came in.

What I mean is 'threatening' to walk away is meaningless if someone else comes along and outbids me isn't it?

you seem very naive?
You imply you think eBay is "better", yet even there if bids keep coming in, then the auction automatically continues as ebay just keeps resetting to a 30 second countdown.

Have you ever been to an actual auction, of course bidders keep going until last one standing, that is the whole point.  Bidders drop out either because they don't have the money to bid higher, or they decide it is simply not "worth" paying more, the auction has "tested the market" in the most perfect way.

The fact you have been returning with increased offers gives the seller confidence you have not yet reached your ceiling and will keep going. Why on earth do you think they would initiate closing the deal given that scenario!

Look at your finances, know what your ceiling is and offer it.
Then walk away if it does not secure it. Don't threaten, act.

The job of the EA (if there is one) is to come back at you and suggest "another £x will sway it". The point of the exercise is to convince the EA you are at your max and there is no +£x left to bid with, so they will lose a ready to proceed buyer if they continue playing games with you. Make the EA pressure the vendor, not you.

Don't play the bidding war given you find it frustrating. You know what the asking price is, you know what other properties are on the market at that price. Decide your max and stick to it.

If you do buy it, by the time you come to sell, the property will probably have increased in value making the "saving" you got by bidding under your max look like chicken feed. The first property I bought I offered 73K against 75k asking, it was rejected. I made one and only "final" offer of 74k and we agreed on it. I had 2 others I could have bought, but this was my #1 and it was at my (then) ceiling. I sold it many years later for 300k and looking back now I laugh at how much of a failure I felt at the time for having "only" got 1k off asking. that 1k "extra" paid was nothing within a few years, and irrelevant in mortgage repayment terms as I was at my max borrowing   

I am bidding for land and has taken months to find a suitable one so I am keen.

I never experienced the timer resetting with ebay? There would often be a flurry of bidding in the last couple of minutes. If it reset then that would not be the case.

Fingerscrossed the bidding does seem to be slowing down. My rationale is I would go back and forth until I got to my maximum and if it got there then I would tell EA.

The back and forth vs going for max right away seems inconsequential if you would end up at your max anyway? There seems nothing to lose by a couple more emails back and forth and yet maxing right away you could indeed lose out on a couple of grand. This is MSE forum do not forget!