Form AP1 - Panel 4 - Do you pay the full fee even if you're only transferring a share?

Heliocentric

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

SDLT_Geek

Heliocentric said:

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

Is the title at the Land Registry now in the names of your mother and your father?

If so, the registered title passes to him alone by survivorship.  If your name is to be added, then the transfer would be by your father as ongoing proprietor, but that is difficult if he has no capacity.

What the executors would hold is her beneficial interest in the property, which they could pass by an assent, perhaps using form AS1.

propertyrental

Do you have POA for your father?

Land_Registry

Heliocentric said:

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

If they are joint owners then any transfer would be by your Father to himself plus you. 

Panel 4 of form AP1 can state Transfer of share, transfer by way of a gift or similar - it’s a transfer 
You then state the “Full market value is £X” and pay a scale 2 fee on half that current value 
It’s a postal only application for you
Panel 4 can also refer to “Death of joint owner” or similar and lodge certified copy of death certificate or probate as proof of death only 
You can’t transfer/assent a share in the sense that you, as her executor, can transfer/assent her half share. The legal ownership can only ever be transferred as a whole hence for example a transfer by Father to Father and Son 
Our guidance explains more re a transfer from owner to owner and beneficiary 
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/guide-page-external/?stepid=c48ca216-8d82-eb11-a812-000d3ad48f95&kbonly=true&setanswer=

And as propertyrental suggests if you are trying to do this as an executor do consider getting legal advice as to what you can do here especially as you can’t transfer the legal ownership on your own as her executor and need to consider your Father’s lack of capacity and it’s impact 

Heliocentric

SDLT_Geek said:

Heliocentric said:

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

Is the title at the Land Registry now in the names of your mother and your father?

If so, the registered title passes to him alone by survivorship.  If your name is to be added, then the transfer would be by your father as ongoing proprietor, but that is difficult if he has no capacity.

What the executors would hold is her beneficial interest in the property, which they could pass by an assent, perhaps using form AS1.

Yes the Land Registry is in their names. I've already spoken to them about what to do. No AS1. It's just AP1 and TR1 along with the ID forms for myself and my father, death certificate and LPA/Deputyship evidence.

I am his deputy, so i can do that on his behalf.

I'm just asking specifically about 'transfer of share' in AP1 Panel 4.

I'm the executor.

Heliocentric

Land_Registry said:

Heliocentric said:

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

If they are joint owners then any transfer would be by your Father to himself plus you. 

Panel 4 of form AP1 can state Transfer of share, transfer by way of a gift or similar - it’s a transfer 
You then state the “Full market value is £X” and pay a scale 2 fee on half that current value 
It’s a postal only application for you
Panel 4 can also refer to “Death of joint owner” or similar and lodge certified copy of death certificate or probate as proof of death only 
You can’t transfer/assent a share in the sense that you, as her executor, can transfer/assent her half share. The legal ownership can only ever be transferred as a whole hence for example a transfer by Father to Father and Son 
Our guidance explains more re a transfer from owner to owner and beneficiary 
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/guide-page-external/?stepid=c48ca216-8d82-eb11-a812-000d3ad48f95&kbonly=true&setanswer=

And as propertyrental suggests if you are trying to do this as an executor do consider getting legal advice as to what you can do here especially as you can’t transfer the legal ownership on your own as her executor and need to consider your Father’s lack of capacity and it’s impact 

Yes they are joint tenants in common.

Do I need to specify what the half share is as well or will they just calculate it to make sure it's correct?

Thanks for confirming about it being postal as well.

Transfer of share it is then! So I am not transferring on my mum's behalf, just transferring on behalf of my father to both of us.

I am his deputy and land registry have told me to send in the deputyship proof and proof of his ID (the form) that's it. So I'm going to go ahead with that. If they have an issue I will seek advice afterwards off the back of it. I just want to keep costs down.

I think I need to use a conveyancer or solicitor for the ID forms, though, unfortunately. They seem to only accept confirmation from people with very specific job titles, not sure why.

Land_Registry

Heliocentric said:

Land_Registry said:

Heliocentric said:

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

If they are joint owners then any transfer would be by your Father to himself plus you. 

Panel 4 of form AP1 can state Transfer of share, transfer by way of a gift or similar - it’s a transfer 
You then state the “Full market value is £X” and pay a scale 2 fee on half that current value 
It’s a postal only application for you
Panel 4 can also refer to “Death of joint owner” or similar and lodge certified copy of death certificate or probate as proof of death only 
You can’t transfer/assent a share in the sense that you, as her executor, can transfer/assent her half share. The legal ownership can only ever be transferred as a whole hence for example a transfer by Father to Father and Son 
Our guidance explains more re a transfer from owner to owner and beneficiary 
https://customerhelp.landregistry.gov.uk/guide-page-external/?stepid=c48ca216-8d82-eb11-a812-000d3ad48f95&kbonly=true&setanswer=

And as propertyrental suggests if you are trying to do this as an executor do consider getting legal advice as to what you can do here especially as you can’t transfer the legal ownership on your own as her executor and need to consider your Father’s lack of capacity and it’s impact 

Yes they are joint tenants in common.

Do I need to specify what the half share is as well or will they just calculate it to make sure it's correct?

Thanks for confirming about it being postal as well.

Transfer of share it is then! So I am not transferring on my mum's behalf, just transferring on behalf of my father to both of us.

I am his deputy and land registry have told me to send in the deputyship proof and proof of his ID (the form) that's it. So I'm going to go ahead with that. If they have an issue I will seek advice afterwards off the back of it. I just want to keep costs down.

I think I need to use a conveyancer or solicitor for the ID forms, though, unfortunately. They seem to only accept confirmation from people with very specific job titles, not sure why.

You state “Full market value £X” in panel 4 of form AP1 and pay Scale 2 fee on half of that.
We ask people to have their identities verified to help prevent the risk of property fraud. As I’m sure you can appreciate we then carry out our own checks behind the scenes as well and specific jobs enable us to make specific checks 

Heliocentric

Scale 2 fees
Value or amount	Apply by post
£200,001 to £500,000	£100.00
£500,001 to £1,000,000	£145.00

Sorry, I do have more questions just because I thought I understood what 'pay scale 2 fee on half of that' meant but looking at it, it could mean one of 2 things. The house is worth 600k. Which is the correct calculation:

1.  1/2 of £600k = £300k, so I pay £100? ...or
2. £600k = £145 fees divided by 2 = £72.50

I put £100 but not sure now.

I'm also slightly confused about panel 5 of this form relating to documents. I only have one copy of the deeds. Do I really have to order another copy of the deeds to send in with the form??? It's the land registry. Can't they just look up the deeds or go and retrieve the deeds themselves from their own premises?!

What other documents would need to be sent in with the form?

Thanks.

RAS

Heliocentric said:

Hello,

I am, as an executor of my mum's will, transferring the title of a house to my name and my father's name. I'm also applying on behalf of my dad as he has no capacity. They were tenants in common. I've contacted land registry and all is fine. I've filled out form TR1 already. I'm just a bit confused by form AP1.

I've just watched this video in which a woman transfers her title to include her husband. She gifts him his share. Then she writes 'transfer of share' in the application column of Panel 4.

But mine is an inheritance, not a gift. No money will be changing hands, nothing will be sold, no mortgage. I live here.

Is it still 'transfer of share'? Does it affect anything in terms of fees? Do I pay half of the fees because it's just my name being added (and my mum's name removed) or still full fees? Market value is £600k. 

Do I need to add 'removal of deceased's name' as one of the applications in AP1 or is it enough to have form TR1 specify everything?

Also it says there are reduced fees if you apply via the portal or business gateway but I don't understand what that is. I tried googling, I've seen the portal but is this something that is accessible to everyone or is this for business-related properties? I was under the impression we had to apply by post.

Thanks.

Please can you confirm a couple of things?

Does the will leave you your mother's share absolutely? The exact word matters.

Or does it give your father the right to live in the house for a defined time, such as "until his death"?

Do you live in the house?

Heliocentric

Can I ask why? I'm just asking how to fill out a form not whether or not I have permission. That part is done. I have probate.

RAS

Probate only grants you the right to do what the will instructs. 

You've several threads, so it's clear you live in the house, so there are no CGT issues. 

You indicate that the house is owned tenants in common. It is normal for those owning a property with family/partners as tenants in common to leave the other party the right to live in the house until they die, or another milestone is reached. That doesn't mean that the person to whom they leave their portion of the house become the immediate owner.

Since you are dad's deputy you have to be absolutely sure that you are doing exactly the correct thing in securing his rights. If he has a life interest, or similar, that fact that he is in a care home does not alter that right.