UC meetings self employed

thunderandlightenup

It doesn't make sense does it. He's actually employed part time too. He only hits the MIF when you add his part time earnings to his self-employed earnings though but I don't know what more he can do!

Yamor

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I found this, but I'm not sure of the original source of the document:

It's from the DWP internal guidance deposited in the House of Commons library by DWP.

poppy12345 said:

Your earnings will not be added to his for the MIF when it applies. 

As the OP is a carer and has zero 'expected hours', their earnings will combine with their partner's to count towards the MIF.

thunderandlightenup said:

Out of interest does anyone know if before they brought in the change in September 2020 (I believe that's when it was) where only those in new businesses would have a 12 month start-up period, would they still make those recently moved over but not in their first 12 months of trading, attend interviews? I know the MIF would have applied to them from the start instead of after 12 months but just wondering if they would have been subject to the interviews too? If not, I can't see why they just can't do the same for those not in an actual start-up period earning above their own personal MIF.

Yes, the expectation is for quarterly appointments for anyone 'gainfully self-employed', whether in a start up period or later when the MIF applies. So this also applied prior to the 2020 changes when the MIF applied straightaway.
I understand that the main reason is to ensure that they are still gainfully self-employed, which is required to be entitled to the start-up period and also for the MIF to be applied.

thunderandlightenup said:

It doesn't make sense does it. He's actually employed part time too. He only hits the MIF when you add his part time earnings to his self-employed earnings though but I don't know what more he can do!

They won't expect him to do more.
The meetings are just to ensure he is still gainfully self-employed, and possibly also to ensure he is reporting income and expenses correctly.

thunderandlightenup

Thanks for your reply. Can you tell me where I can find any information that states that quarterly appointments are required for the self-employed no matter how long they've been in business for? I didn't think this was the case and anything I can find only states it's during the start-up period. Even the replies in the journal have led me to believe this is the case. If they require these interviews I can't see my husband doing them regularly so we'd probably have to stop claiming which is crap when I'm so limited to how many shifts I can work.

jadex

thunderandlightenup said:

Thanks for your reply. Can you tell me where I can find any information that states that quarterly appointments are required for the self-employed no matter how long they've been in business for? I didn't think this was the case and anything I can find only states it's during the start-up period. Even the replies in the journal have led me to believe this is the case. If they require these interviews I can't see my husband doing them regularly so we'd probably have to stop claiming which is crap when I'm so limited to how many shifts I can work.

With due respect, I think you are looking at it with some bias as you just don't want your husband to waste his time.
I can understand that but... if you look at it from different perspective and treat it as a business appointment then it may change the way you see things.
Let's assume that you are getting on average moderate sum of £200 per month (or whatever it is). It comes to £600 per quarter.
Now, 1 hour for actual appointment plus let's say 1 hr to get there and 1 hr to come back. That is 3 hours "work" to secure £600 i.e. £200 per hour. Now it doesn't look that bad deal, does it? Even if he has to take the whole day off then wouldn't £600 compensate his loss of income for that day with some good surplus?
Treat is like a business and if P/L is not worth his while then close the claim.

poppy12345

Yamor said:

poppy12345 said:

Your earnings will not be added to his for the MIF when it applies. 

As the OP is a carer and has zero 'expected hours', their earnings will combine with their partner's to count towards the MIF.

Wow I didn't know that, thanks. You learn something new everyday. 

tomtom256

Partners earnings do not count towards the MIF, the MIF amount only applies to the self-employed person.
The partners earnings will be used when caluclualting the combined CET.

poppy12345

tomtom256 said:

Partners earnings do not count towards the MIF, the MIF amount only applies to the self-employed person.
The partners earnings will be used when caluclualting the combined CET.

Thanks, that explains why I couldn’t find any information on that. 

Yamor

tomtom256 said:

Partners earnings do not count towards the MIF, the MIF amount only applies to the self-employed person.
The partners earnings will be used when caluclualting the combined CET.

In a case where the partner has zero expected hours, then the partner's earnings will effectively count towards the MIF. See Reg 62(3).

tomtom256

Yamor said:

In a case where the partner has zero expected hours, then the partner's earnings will effectively count towards the MIF. See Reg 62(3).

I would read over it again, it makes reference to the couple threshold, as the MIF doesn't have a couple threshold, it can only count towards the CET, which would be 35 hpw for the GSE claimant and 0 for the carer. Which means if partner has 0 hours, the couple threshold (CET), will effectively be set at the MIF level or the combined earnings if the SE income is lower than the MIF, but the combined earnings meet it.
So you could argue it does count towards the MIF, but that isn't the intention, because if they had no earnings the MIF would be used.

Yamor

tomtom256 said:

Yamor said:

In a case where the partner has zero expected hours, then the partner's earnings will effectively count towards the MIF. See Reg 62(3).

I would read over it again, it makes reference to the couple threshold, as the MIF doesn't have a couple threshold, it can only count towards the CET, which would be 35 hpw for the GSE claimant and 0 for the carer. Which means if partner has 0 hours, the couple threshold (CET), will effectively be set at the MIF level or the combined earnings if the SE income is lower than the MIF, but the combined earnings meet it.
So you could argue it does count towards the MIF, but that isn't the intention, because if they had no earnings the MIF would be used.

Thank you for the advice to read it again.

The MIF explicitly does have a couples threshold which can be met by combining the two partner's earnings. As per the regulation I quoted.

In a situation where the non-self-employed partner has expected hours of zero, the effect is that their earnings will count towards the s/e claimant's individual MIF, because in that situation the combined CET is the same as the individual MIF.