UC meetings self employed

thunderandlightenup

We recently moved from tax credits to universal credit. My husband has been self-employed for 4 years. We earn way above our minimum income floor between us (our minimum income floor is low as I'm not expected to do any hours due to caring responsibilities but between us we earn almost double our MIF).

As we've only recently moved over, they are classing him as in the start-up period of his business as I believe it was recently changed so that not only new businesses but anyone moving over from TC would be eligible for a 12 month start-up period where the MIF wouldn't apply. But in these circumstances the self-employed person must meet quarterly for appointments at the job centre to try to increase his income during the start-up period.

Now I have sent messages through the online journal but I'm going around in circles with the replies. I'm trying to see if they will move him to the working enough category because what on earth is the point of going to interviews (which are almost impossible anyway as he's so busy with his business and working a part time job on top) to get him to increase his MIF when we earn almost twice our MIF anyway and with young children including one we claim high rate DLA for, there is absolutely no chance we can work/earn more than we already do.

Are they right that he would still have to attend because he is in a "start-up period" despite being 4 years into his business. I understand the minimum income floor would be applied which we are fine with us we earn way above it! Is it worth keeping onto to them? He would really struggle to find the time to go to them anyway as he's flat out with working and when he's not he's looking after the kids (whilst I work) including our severely autistic child who would not be able to wait around at a job centre. We've had to cancel quite a few anyway but they still keep rebooking despite me explaining. Any help would be appreciated.

DJ_Kav

I feel your pain.
I just submitted my TC to UC migration.
I'm a self-employed PA for my mum (since 2014). She pays me out of her disability money, into my business account. I have an accountant to take care of my tax returns. She pays me for 16 hrs, instead of paying for an external agency. She trusts me, and my ASD doesn't have to cope with strangers.

I also have my own disabilities, that I have to work around, and a child to care for, who starts high school in September. My child is also on the ASD pathway, as I have been medically diagnosed with ASD.

I have my 'Gateway Intervention' interview later this month.

I'm not looking forward to it at all. My anxiety is through the roof.

Spoonie_Turtle

I found this, but I'm not sure of the original source of the document:

"The claimant can ask not to attend a quarterly interview. This can be considered if their earnings are above the level of the MIF set in the 3 previous assessment periods.  In these cases, a phone call is sufficient contact to satisfy conditionality requirements."

From the PDF 'Self-Employed Start-Up Period" on this page https://www.uc-advice.co.uk/further-universal-credit-information/universal-credit-and-self-employment

We have some members who work on the front lines of UC so hopefully at least one will be along soon to be able to confirm whether that can happen, or correct as to what actually happens.

tomtom256

Unfortunetly that is the process, the MIF can be introduced earlier, but they cannot override your requirements manually.
SE reviews should be done by phone as well, which may help.
Are you SE as well? As you have stated we earn above the MIF, the MIF is individually set, so you either both have one or only your partner does. It's the conditionality earnings threshold thats the factor where SE is concerned.

kaMelo

Do self employed have a CET? 

As both will have individual MIF and a combined MIF I thought that is the self employed equivalent of an employees CET.

huckster

@kaMelo

No. In the start up period, the claims should be in a position to be subject to quarterly self employment review appointments. This allows conversation about income and expenses being reported. And where required to request to see Bank statements, receipts, invoices etc.

TheShape

kaMelo said:

Do self employed have a CET? 

As both will have individual MIF and a combined MIF I thought that is the self employed equivalent of an employees CET.

An override is applied to the system Work Group so that earnings above the CET don't move a claimant out of the Intensive regime.

thunderandlightenup

Sorry to hear that DJ_Kav, hopefully you can be classed as a carer at least for your child and then you won’t be required to attend anymore interviews. I hope your initial interview goes smooth for you.

Thank you all, I’m not self-employed, I’m a part-time nurse. Maybe I’m understanding it wrong though. I just thought as I am not actually required to work any hours because of my caring status, that any money I earn can be added to his earnings to see if it brings us over the MIF. Even without my earnings, he earns over his MIF alone anyway, I was just trying to make a point that we earn almost double what they require of us as a couple that’s why I just didn’t understand what the point of the interviews would be as he cannot increase his earnings any more than they are already.

I thought they only changed it so that everyone self-employed would be allowed a 12-month start-up period moving from TC to make things better but it’s actually made things worse for those who are already in established businesses earning above their MIL. Unless it was always the case that anyone moving over would be subject to interviews for 12 months. I get that it’s a condition of getting the money and if we don’t like it we don’t have to claim but it just seems so pointless and not thought through. He submits all his incomings and outgoings every month and unless they can put him in touch with cheaper suppliers, speak to his landlord about reducing the rent on his unit, ect. then there really is no way that they can support him to increase his earnings.

I did come across that Spoonie_Turtle which was also on an official government document so maybe that’s my next step to just ask for phone calls instead. It just all seems like a jump through hoops exercise but thanks for all your help all.

poppy12345

Your earnings will not be added to his for the MIF when it applies. 

thunderandlightenup

Aw I thought it would, it doesn't matter anyway as he earns over his MIF on his own, this is why I don't get why he has to attend these appointments. But I will ask for telephone appointments instead.

So just to double check, once the 12 months is over, he won't have to have any interviews is that correct?

It's mad how they keep calling it a start-up period when he's been trading 4 years, I think that's what was making me feel like I was going around in circles with them as they just kept saying as he's in a start-up period he will still need to attend, but I see a few on here have also called it a start-up period so I think it's just the phrasing they use for anyone self-employed that's recently moved over from TC.

Out of interest does anyone know if before they brought in the change in September 2020 (I believe that's when it was) where only those in new businesses would have a 12 month start-up period, would they still make those recently moved over but not in their first 12 months of trading, attend interviews? I know the MIF would have applied to them from the start instead of after 12 months but just wondering if they would have been subject to the interviews too? If not, I can't see why they just can't do the same for those not in an actual start-up period earning above their own personal MIF.

SirSteven1986

Seems an absolute blag I just got a part time job employed to stop there pestering and worked my self employed buisness around it! There so hard on the self employed now before that I was just self employed declaring more than current employed job and would be wanted to attended job searches every week 🤷‍♂️