Four PCN's - Need Help!

xskullx

Hi MSE Community, 

I was passed four PCN's from my companies accounts department that had been sent via post from the lease hire company we use. The PCN's are from a company called UK Car Park Management and I have appealed all of them. Quick overview of these below.

5***375 – Paid in full by lease company (despite me saying I was going to appeal). So no grounds the appeal which is crazy!? The PCN is not recognised on the IPC's website when I try challenge it.

5***692 – Cancelled.

5***368 – Cancelled.

5***307 – New PCN issued in my name and received. Cannot appeal as already done so when the original PCN was under the name of the lease company.

I need the communities help with the above PCN's in bold please. I cannot appeal these PCN's internally with UKCPM and it will be 28 days this Friday 14th that reach the deadline to appeal - not much time!

On the rear of the letter that was received by UKCPM it is stated that I can challenge the PCN via the IPC which is my only option left for PCN 5***307.

This was my appeal that I submitted to UKCPM. It was a template that I modified and had taken from the "NEWBIES" section read before posting.

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I challenge this 'PCN' as lessee of the car and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself at the address listed below:

I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) now it is proven that in this instance, the registered keeper is not the "keeper" (as defined under POFA), UK Car Park Management has no reason to contact **** again regarding this PCN.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers. No windscreen ticket was issued.

Furthermore, I understand you do not own the land where the PCN was issued and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either offer me a POPLA code or cancel the charge for "No Parking On Access Roads/Roadways".

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why UK Car Park Management to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Given that UK Car Park Management has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully"

Please note that because I appealed the original PCN's when they were under the name of the lease company I can't appeal them again. Therefore, they issued new PCN's under my name and because the appeals were already unsuccessful I cannot appeal twice.

Below is the evidence and corresponsive received from the above appeal:

1st Original PCN Letter:


Appeal outcome email:


2nd PCN issued in my name (not lease company):


Rear side of 2nd PCN issued:

All your help and any advise would be greatly appreciated, and thank you so much in advance in helping me beat these parking cowboys profiting off us!

Sincerely.

NCarter56

Sorry, quick question before advising - why can't you appeal them? Is it because you are outside of the timeframe they stipulate? Were there any reasons? I would write letter of appeal anyway as they need to be seen to be acting reasonably. 

xskullx

NCarter56 said:

Sorry, quick question before advising - why can't you appeal them? Is it because you are outside of the timeframe they stipulate? Were there any reasons? I would write letter of appeal anyway as they need to be seen to be acting reasonably. 

Hi thanks for the reply. Because I appealed the original PCN's when they were under the name of the lease hire company. Therefore, they issued new PCN's under my name and because the appeals were already unsuccessful I cannot appeal again. Hope that makes sense.

Coupon-mad

xskullx said:

NCarter56 said:

Sorry, quick question before advising - why can't you appeal them? Is it because you are outside of the timeframe they stipulate? Were there any reasons? I would write letter of appeal anyway as they need to be seen to be acting reasonably. 

Hi thanks for the reply. Because I appealed the original PCN's when they were under the name of the lease hire company. Therefore, they issued new PCN's under my name and because the appeals were already unsuccessful I cannot appeal again. Hope that makes sense.

That reply is from a poster newer than you, not a regular adviser in this forum board. I assume you spotted that?  No offence meant to the new poster (and I hope they stick around and offer good advice in future) and the post was fair, but I just wanted you to be a bit aware of post counts because parking firms lurk here too.

Appeal the one(s) you can to the IAS now.  Decline to say who was driving. State you are the hirer. Use the same PoFA (hirer) argument.

Add that, as the hirer receiving more than one unfair PCN out of the blue (with no enclosures) you've visited the site and the signage is sub-faded and non-prominent and the driver (who will remain unnamed) was at all times authorised to be on site.

Don't expect to win, but the above are legal arguments with merit and by using IAS, it hooks those PCNs completely away from the lease firm.

Do not pay any (even after IAS loss) but hook ALL of them in your direction by using the IAS.

xskullx

Coupon-mad said:

xskullx said:

NCarter56 said:

Sorry, quick question before advising - why can't you appeal them? Is it because you are outside of the timeframe they stipulate? Were there any reasons? I would write letter of appeal anyway as they need to be seen to be acting reasonably. 

Hi thanks for the reply. Because I appealed the original PCN's when they were under the name of the lease hire company. Therefore, they issued new PCN's under my name and because the appeals were already unsuccessful I cannot appeal again. Hope that makes sense.

That reply is from a poster newer than you, not a regular adviser in this forum board. I assume you spotted that?  No offence meant to the new poster (and I hope they stick around and offer good advice in future) and the post was fair, but I just wanted you to be a bit aware of post counts because parking firms lurk here too.

Appeal the one(s) you can to the IAS now.  Decline to say who was driving. State you are the hirer. Use the same PoFA (hirer) argument.

Add that, as the hirer receiving more than one unfair PCN out of the blue (with no enclosures) you've visited the site and the signage is sub-faded and non-prominent and the driver (who will remain unnamed) was at all times authorised to be on site.

Don't expect to win, but the above are legal arguments with merit and by using IAS, it hooks those PCNs completely away from the lease firm.

Do not pay any (even after IAS loss) but hook ALL of them in your direction by using the IAS.

Amazing thanks for your feedback very helpful.
What do you suggest about not receiving the new PCN when I appealed and named myself as the hirer? Shall I notify UKCPM now that a letter has not been received? 

Coupon-mad

Did you get a rejection letter?

xskullx

Coupon-mad said:

Did you get a rejection letter?

Nope and I just found it it was cancelled, that's why - woohoo!
Just have to fight the PCN that the lease company paid on the final reminder £100 + £15 admin fee.

Coupon-mad

You can't fight that one, except to refuse to pay the lease company because it was never theirs to pay and you aren't going to bail them out.

xskullx

***UPDATE!***

I have just received this letter what should I do? I'm scared!


0

Please advise what I should do here as I don't want a  CCJ or anything that will do damage to my credit score as I'm trying to buy a house!

Thanks in advance!

Sincerely

Gr1pr

Debt collectors are powerless, no idea why you are scared, more like irrational or concerned, but not scared 

A CCJ is not automatic, the parking company would have to go to court and win, even then you get 30 days to pay in full to avoid credit or mortgage issues.  This case is a long way off court, especially because a lot of cases are taking over a year to get to a hearing in court, read the thread below 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6534418/court-changes-or-conflicting-advice-ccj#latest

A typical loss in court for a single PCN is around £200 , payable within the first 30 days , they won't put you in prison or deport you, no criminal record either, it's all about money 

Coupon-mad

xskullx said:

***UPDATE!***

I have just received this letter what should I do? I'm scared!


0

Please advise what I should do here as I don't want a  CCJ or anything that will do damage to my credit score as I'm trying to buy a house!

But getting daft £170 debt demands doesn't affect your credit rating or buying a house.