Heat Pump Sizing?

FreeBear

greenbee said:

FreeBear said:

michaels said: I can only sort of monitor energy usage as I see whole house usage on my V2G but don't know the specific usage by the ASHP, presumably I can get some sort of wifi monitor like the smart plugs have.  In theory I have an output monitor but I suspect it may need some calibrating, also one of the temp probes is in a pocket but the other is simply taped to the copper tube so they may not be reading equivalently.

For monitoring electrical consumption, I use the Peacefair PZEM-016 - Accurate enough for my needs.

As for temperature sensors, you can get a clip on style - https://atcsemitec.co.uk/product/pipe-clip-surface-temp-sensors/ - Quite often used inside gas boilers. Can be a little expensive depending on where you buy them. I've got a couple that I wired to a pair of cheap LCD temperature modules to balance radiators.

Sensors sitting in a thermowell are best if you are aiming for ultimate accuracy, but for heat pump monitoring, you don't really need to go that far.

Every time I read about your temperature sensors and monitors I feel I should got and buy some... but realistically I know that I'll find that the set up here needs work and I really can't face what that would involve!

It is a slippery slope. You start with just a couple of sensors to monitor room temperatures. Put together a computer to collect the data and display fancy graphs. Then you add more sensors that can measure humidity as well. Add a couple more to log electricity consumption.. A heat meter on the boiler to see how much power is going to the radiators. Before you know it, you've gone out an bought a drum of Belden cable and have wires going everywhere.

Most people would have been satisfied with a Hive thermostat

michaels

I was thinking of getting one of these and swapping it for the RCBO that feeds the heat pump

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006098603660.html

For output I have added this into the circuit - it comes with 2 temp probes, one is in a pocket in the device and the other is a probe that could be put in a pocket but is currently taped to a pipe but is giving a different reading than the heat pump for this.

Danfoss SonoMeter 1100 Heat Meter | UK Sales & Support – Stockshed® - A GLAD Group Company.

FreeBear

michaels said: For output I have added this into the circuit - it comes with 2 temp probes, one is in a pocket in the device and the other is a probe that could be put in a pocket but is currently taped to a pipe but is giving a different reading than the heat pump for this.

Danfoss SonoMeter 1100 Heat Meter | UK Sales & Support – Stockshed® - A GLAD Group Company.

The aliexpress link is just coming up as a blank page for me..

Wrapping pipe insulation around the section where the sensor is will reduce any errors from cold draughts & convection currents.

I made a pocket up out of a 22mm branch tee and a 1/2"BSP plug - Had use of a lathe to turn the thermowell.

michaels

Was hoping I could chop the URL - in its full glory

2P 63A TUYA APP WiFi Smart Circuit Earth Leakage Over Under Voltage Protector Relay Device Switch Breaker Energy Power kWh Meter - AliExpress 1420

greenbee

FreeBear said:

greenbee said:

FreeBear said:

michaels said: I can only sort of monitor energy usage as I see whole house usage on my V2G but don't know the specific usage by the ASHP, presumably I can get some sort of wifi monitor like the smart plugs have.  In theory I have an output monitor but I suspect it may need some calibrating, also one of the temp probes is in a pocket but the other is simply taped to the copper tube so they may not be reading equivalently.

For monitoring electrical consumption, I use the Peacefair PZEM-016 - Accurate enough for my needs.

As for temperature sensors, you can get a clip on style - https://atcsemitec.co.uk/product/pipe-clip-surface-temp-sensors/ - Quite often used inside gas boilers. Can be a little expensive depending on where you buy them. I've got a couple that I wired to a pair of cheap LCD temperature modules to balance radiators.

Sensors sitting in a thermowell are best if you are aiming for ultimate accuracy, but for heat pump monitoring, you don't really need to go that far.

Every time I read about your temperature sensors and monitors I feel I should got and buy some... but realistically I know that I'll find that the set up here needs work and I really can't face what that would involve!

It is a slippery slope. You start with just a couple of sensors to monitor room temperatures. Put together a computer to collect the data and display fancy graphs. Then you add more sensors that can measure humidity as well. Add a couple more to log electricity consumption.. A heat meter on the boiler to see how much power is going to the radiators. Before you know it, you've gone out an bought a drum of Belden cable and have wires going everywhere.

Most people would have been satisfied with a Hive thermostat

if you run out of stuff to monitor, let me know and you can use your extensive talents to set something up here

FreeBear

michaels said:

Was hoping I could chop the URL - in its full glory

2P 63A TUYA APP WiFi Smart Circuit Earth Leakage Over Under Voltage Protector Relay Device Switch Breaker Energy Power kWh Meter - AliExpress 1420

Ah, you'd dropped the L in html.

If you are thinking of using that particular device inside a standard consumer unit, you might want to rethink. The live bus bar at the bottom of the CU will need cutting down and extra insulation added. Would be best used in a standalone box with an integral DIN rail - Had the same issue when I tried to integrate a similar module in my CU.

NedS

I use a couple of these Emlite meters, one for the ASHP and another for my Solar generation. Very accurate and easy to read for daily consumption.

My Samsung controller reports daily consumption (and generation) data too (and seems fairly accurate), but that also includes the electrical consumption of my circulation pumps, so the Emlite meter reading measuring only the ASHP usage gives me a more direct comparison to oil or gas consumption as any heating system (ASHP, oil, gas) will also require electrical pumps.

michaels

FreeBear said:

michaels said:

Was hoping I could chop the URL - in its full glory

2P 63A TUYA APP WiFi Smart Circuit Earth Leakage Over Under Voltage Protector Relay Device Switch Breaker Energy Power kWh Meter - AliExpress 1420

Ah, you'd dropped the L in html.

If you are thinking of using that particular device inside a standard consumer unit, you might want to rethink. The live bus bar at the bottom of the CU will need cutting down and extra insulation added. Would be best used in a standalone box with an integral DIN rail - Had the same issue when I tried to integrate a similar module in my CU.

Thank, fixed the link

Yes, we already have a separate box in the garage for the heat pump as we used a feed from a socket on the garage plug ring so wanted to add a separate RCBO - also a reason for not using the built in electric heater as this is a 32A circuit.

michaels

So I want to add a thermostat which I think will allow a separate 'call for heat' on/off in addition to the weather comp water temp control I am using at the moment.

This is the install manual, page 41 and 42 seems to me to imply that the feed to the thermostat is 230v and it expects a 230v live return on the call for heat.  Anyone else read it the same way or have the same model with a thermostat to confirm?  Thanks 

https://gscs-b2c.lge.com/downloadFile?fileId=EoU8EjdDipG6CZuc7jLw

Reed_Richards

I think what you describe is fairly standard for a thermostat or certainly for the traditional design.  But these days you tend to have a wireless thermostat that communicates with a "base unit" that does the switching.