semi-retirement planning- accessed pension..paying off mortgage?

MallyGirl

Secret2ndAccount said:

It does seem to me that the land registry only stores a basic version of the deeds - the ownership and the outline on a map. Much less than the big stack of papers my sister had. I wonder if the paper deeds are of any use in resolving detail issues. For example, my deeds contained a covenant that said I couldn't build a shed. That is long lost (and I now have a nice shed, as does every house in the street). What happens if somebody comes up with the documents that say none of these sheds is allowed?

Mine is also lost but there is evidence of a covenant to prevent a boys school (there is long standing one nearby) or a nursery. Given that we are near the site of what was formerly Suttons Seeds, and that the house age probably pre-dates the concept of a childcare nursery, then I suspect that this means a horticultural one and not a childcare one but the lost documents mean it is impossible to prove either way.

Pat38493

Secret2ndAccount said:

If the property has changed hands since 1990 it will be registered. Therefore the deeds are stored digitally at the Land Registry. A couple of stories to relate
When I paid off my mortgage it transpired that the bank had lost my deeds... It has never bothered me and never been an issue so far. I downloaded a digital copy from the Land Registry.
When my sister paid off her mortgage, She kept the debt open at £1. The bank did not charge her any interest, and stored her deeds for free for years. I think this is what the OP is referring to, but it's non-current info in my view. It was a pretty old house. There were some moderately grandiose papers in the package, but nothing written with a quill and sealed with wax.
It does seem to me that the land registry only stores a basic version of the deeds - the ownership and the outline on a map. Much less than the big stack of papers my sister had. I wonder if the paper deeds are of any use in resolving detail issues. For example, my deeds contained a covenant that said I couldn't build a shed. That is long lost (and I now have a nice shed, as does every house in the street). What happens if somebody comes up with the documents that say none of these sheds is allowed?

Why would you do that?  The only possible reason I can think of is that it helps your credit rating if the mortgage is still open, or possibly it makes it easier to take out an loan against the house if you already have an active mortgage which is massively in overpayment?

Pat38493

MallyGirl said:

Secret2ndAccount said:

It does seem to me that the land registry only stores a basic version of the deeds - the ownership and the outline on a map. Much less than the big stack of papers my sister had. I wonder if the paper deeds are of any use in resolving detail issues. For example, my deeds contained a covenant that said I couldn't build a shed. That is long lost (and I now have a nice shed, as does every house in the street). What happens if somebody comes up with the documents that say none of these sheds is allowed?

Mine is also lost but there is evidence of a covenant to prevent a boys school (there is long standing one nearby) or a nursery. Given that we are near the site of what was formerly Suttons Seeds, and that the house age probably pre-dates the concept of a childcare nursery, then I suspect that this means a horticultural one and not a childcare one but the lost documents mean it is impossible to prove either way.

Would that be enforceable anyway as it would probably conflict with a bunch of other laws these days (if you are saying that the deeds say you cannot convert the house into a school)?

MallyGirl

I know we were advised to take out an indemnity of some sort against other covenant clauses emerging that we didn't know about (because deeds were lost). They do seem to still be enforceable - a neighbour has a fab bit of land next to their house which could fit a significant house on it but the people living opposite have some legal doc that prevents development of it. Very NIMBY the Victorians!

MallyGirl

Pat38493 said:

Secret2ndAccount said:

If the property has changed hands since 1990 it will be registered. Therefore the deeds are stored digitally at the Land Registry. A couple of stories to relate
When I paid off my mortgage it transpired that the bank had lost my deeds... It has never bothered me and never been an issue so far. I downloaded a digital copy from the Land Registry.
When my sister paid off her mortgage, She kept the debt open at £1. The bank did not charge her any interest, and stored her deeds for free for years. I think this is what the OP is referring to, but it's non-current info in my view. It was a pretty old house. There were some moderately grandiose papers in the package, but nothing written with a quill and sealed with wax.
It does seem to me that the land registry only stores a basic version of the deeds - the ownership and the outline on a map. Much less than the big stack of papers my sister had. I wonder if the paper deeds are of any use in resolving detail issues. For example, my deeds contained a covenant that said I couldn't build a shed. That is long lost (and I now have a nice shed, as does every house in the street). What happens if somebody comes up with the documents that say none of these sheds is allowed?

Why would you do that?  The only possible reason I can think of is that it helps your credit rating if the mortgage is still open, or possibly it makes it easier to take out an loan against the house if you already have an active mortgage which is massively in overpayment?

It used to be really expensive to store these valuable documents somewhere offsite in case of fire. Leaving £1 owing to force the bank to provide safe and secure storage was a cost effective way of avoiding that.

Gary1984

I know it's not really what the OP wants to discuss but why the rush to pay off the mortgage and pay an early repayment charge? Unless you're on a very high fixed rate you could probably save yourself £700 plus interest if you put the money in a high interest account until your deal comes up for renewal.

Pat38493

Gary1984 said:

I know it's not really what the OP wants to discuss but why the rush to pay off the mortgage and pay an early repayment charge? Unless you're on a very high fixed rate you could probably save yourself £700 plus interest if you put the money in a high interest account until your deal comes up for renewal.

Agreed - but OP stated that they insist on paying off the mortgage regardless....

Might be worth mentioning that the benefits you mention, don't mean that the OP still has to find the monthly payments from somewhere else - they will still get a benefit from putting the money in high interest or investments and making the monthly payments from that pot.

Strummer22

MallyGirl said:

I know we were advised to take out an indemnity of some sort against other covenant clauses emerging that we didn't know about (because deeds were lost). They do seem to still be enforceable - a neighbour has a fab bit of land next to their house which could fit a significant house on it but the people living opposite have some legal doc that prevents development of it. Very NIMBY the Victorians!

I think I recall that such covenants can only be enforced (in law) if the beneficiary of the covenant is still extant. For example, if the mining and manorial rights belong to some earldom that no longer exists, the covenant isn't enforceable. 

My property is subject to a covenant for which the beneficiary is the business from which the land was purchased in 1962. The business no longer exists, so there's no-one who could claim the benefit of the covenant. My conveyancer still insisted we pay for indemnity insurance though   

Pat38493

Strummer22 said:

MallyGirl said:

I know we were advised to take out an indemnity of some sort against other covenant clauses emerging that we didn't know about (because deeds were lost). They do seem to still be enforceable - a neighbour has a fab bit of land next to their house which could fit a significant house on it but the people living opposite have some legal doc that prevents development of it. Very NIMBY the Victorians!

I think I recall that such covenants can only be enforced (in law) if the beneficiary of the covenant is still extant. For example, if the mining and manorial rights belong to some earldom that no longer exists, the covenant isn't enforceable. 

My property is subject to a covenant for which the beneficiary is the business from which the land was purchased in 1962. The business no longer exists, so there's no-one who could claim the benefit of the covenant. My conveyancer still insisted we pay for indemnity insurance though   

I have often wondered this before - if the deeds of the house specify certain rules (also other rules like "no caravans on the drive" or suchlike), can your neighbours directly seek to enforce that or is it only the organization that put the rules in place that can enforce it?  If it's the latter, I doubt many companies that built houses 30 years ago are going to take legal action because neighbours complained about a caravan on the drive or whatever.