On THTC tariff but don't use it. Stalemate with Ovo,

m1k3_1969

We originally had storage heaters when we bought the property (2017)and 2 electricity meters,  We had gas installed but the 2 electricity meters were left and we were kept on a THTC tariff for our electricity.  I occasionally asked SSE why the 2nd meter was left and we had to provide a reading when it was never used (still shows a reading and is connected but the reading never changes).  Also, whenever I tried to change to a different tariff online it seemed we were unable to ,(as we were seen as THTC customers even though we weren't using the product).

I've been told by a friend I was probably paying a higher standing charge for the privilege of being on THTC which we had never used so I contacted Ovo to get clarification.  I have emailed Ovo and contacted them by phone and WhatsApp but am having a bad time getting basic information or any sort of help.  Staff claim not to be able to provide tariff information when I ask to compare my current THTC standing charge (63.59p) with the standard rate if I had only 1 electricity meter.  I did at one point get someone (on WhatsApp) to admit another rate would be 9p cheaper per day but when I asked how to get that money I'd overpaid for 7 years back they ignored me.  Obviously unit price I've paid would have to be compared also.

Has anyone had similar issues?  I'm finding it hard enough dealing with Ovo (unhelpful staff claiming to be untrained, emails unanswered) and I'll have to go through any bills I can still access to see what charges I've paid before I can compare.  I've no idea how I'll be able to access my bills with SSE as I'm unable to log in to my account since the changeover.

Should SSE have removed the 2nd electricity meter when the gas and gas meter were installed (obviously our gas and electricity were both with SSE) as standard? Then I wouldn't be tied to a THTC tariff.

I've tried to keep it brief but this is general gist of it, any help or pointers would be appreciated.

Scot_39

Thtc is a complex metering variation on multirate billing and restricted circuits.

It is from ovo description a 2 meter 2 mpan setup, but it is rts with dynamically adjusted off peak duration - 5 to 12 hours - unlike a more modern e7 install with only 7 total and fixed preset - normally gmt - off peak times.

Do you pay 1 standing charge or two for the meters ?

Is the second meter for normal circuits billed at standard single rate regional price - see 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-advice-households/get-energy-price-cap-standing-charges-and-unit-rates-region

or a premium rate to balance a reduced rate on 2nd meter for heating that you no longer use ?

Others have struggled to go smart as isn't a simple job for a typical suppliers smart meter to replace the 2 with some of these complex setups - most smart meters fitted are currently preset time restricted e7 for multirate or single rate.

However you possibly had 2 options - one was perhaps request single rate tariff with only 1 standing charge across both meters  - applied to the metering via the Ofgem relevant restricted metering rules - if that - as it sounds like it might - cover your thtc.

See this link as a start area - and note the need to make you aware in the what was expected of suppliers and the 2021 review issues and customer redress paid.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/decision/supplier-compliance-requirements-customers-restricted-meters

Ovo only had a small number of customers impacted cf others at the time of that report.

Given you have had discussions you might have expected if an option - or rather an actual license condition - they would though have offered.  So hence unsure if truly applies to thtc.

Has anyone else who was on THTC used the RRMI rules to get SR and one SC ?

The second was if matches 2 meter system in place in this users post on Ovo forum c6m ago was to pay for the second meter to be removed.

https://forum.ovoenergy.com/my-account-140/thtc-meter-removal-16526

Note the stages and the need for own electrical work / statement etc.

Neither route would on the face of it be automatic  - you would have to request.

But you might well be able to argue they should have made you aware of the single rate option at some point - under rrmi if applicable.

I'm on e10 and regularly get notice on bills other tariffs like e7 or even single rate (in summer when not using nsh sr can be cheaper than e10).  Which might be enough notice  if Ovo have done something similar - and ever suggested single rate with one mpan a cheaper option to you in last 7 years.

You'd have to check the current iirc section 22G license conditions for current rules.

BarelySentientAI

You haven't overpaid.  You've paid the right amount for your tariff. 

They didn't have to remove the meter because you still kept a thtc tariff. 

You should be allowed to move to a single rate though - have you actually asked to?

SAC2334

Yes, my friend up in Aberdeenshire who was on a THTC dual meter tariff had his supply reduced to one standing charge over two years ago by Ovo ( SSE ) in line with the OFGEM ruling for a complex tariff like /the THTC. This particular set up qualifies for a single standing charge plus a back payment for every day since the ruling started . 
As the OP says its difficult to find a supplier to get away from the hostage of SSE with a THTC set up but we managed to get on a switch which actually worked ok with EDF who he has been with for a year now and quite happy with the reduction in Kwh rate . Have to go through EDF s complex meter team because normal switch Cust Service do not know the set up properly .
Smart meters would be a better switch then he could get onto Octopus smart tariffs but Ovo and EDF are not keen to install them and just say they are "not available " .

Scot_39

Thanks @SAC2334 for the confirmation RRMI single SC could apply.

m1k3_1969

Thanks for the links, I will work my way through and hopefully find an answer. I pay one standing charge for electricity

I am on Simper Energy THTC (Simpler Energy for gas), but I don't have any off-peak electricity and never have, my heating and hot water are from a gas boiler.  If I were on the standard Simpler Energy tariff my standing would be 58.18p as opposed to 63.59p and I'd have a lower unit rate also.

I asked SSE to have the redundant electricity meter removed and to have a smart meter installed, both of these actions could not be done for whatever reason.  When I call Ovo to discuss tariffs they seem unaware that my heating is from gas even though when I provide readings for my electric meters, the 2nd meter never changes.

Ideally I'd get smart meters installed (obviously just one for electricity) and change supplier as I'm sick of Ovo/SSE.

BarelySentientAI

You need to find out (or remember) what the "whatever reason" was and concentrate on that.

Scot_39

Ovo and others are still meant to be developing whatever their smart solution to replace the likes of THTC dynamic/variable off peak timing for heating after rts switchoff.  

So wonder if that's part of the issue confusing customer services when you speak to them.

The above Ovo forum link has a procedure for another THTC user request a 2nd meter removal, but a little worried by the DNO bit. I must admit I got the impression even that thread showed a degree of customer frustration and Ovo CS confusion. Iirc i found at the time of reading that post, their meter removal fee - around £100 iirc - its not free for a user request.

Given the deadline for rts has been extended a year - you will likely be due a meter upgrade at some point. 

I paid 2 SC when I had rts - with 2 meters - rts meter driving 2 restricted  circuits and standard meter normal - so 3 total (i have yet to see a smets2 smart that handles more than 2, but there was at least 1 smets1, so they might exist) - several years ago at EOn. At least for now your only paying one.

In my case both meters driven by same incoming supply and DNO fuse, or if they were just maintaing the old meter database even, I personally had no dealings with them - only EOn - and as it was not my choice I didn't have to pay for meter removal.

m1k3_1969

BarelySentientAI said:

You need to find out (or remember) what the "whatever reason" was and concentrate on that.

It was during a phone-call to SSE and I can't recall the reason they gave, (at that time I was £1250 in credit on electricity and still having to query why they increased my direct debit).

Now I prefer to email or even WhatsApp so that I have a record although I am still forced to call at times.

Only during the last week have Ovo said they would install a smart meter (they said they won't remove the unused meter).  I am happy to have the install but am still not happy to jump through hoops to prove I don't use THTC and am not happy that I'm unable (and have been unable for years) to switch to a cheaper tariff.  I think they're installing the smart meter in the hope that I'll shut up and accept any losses. I've still to try to attempt to get onto a different tariff and get away from THTC.

m1k3_1969

Ovo txt me today to cancel the smart meter installation that was booked only yesterday but invited me to reschedule.  When I called to do so I was told that I couldn't get a smart meter as I had 2 meters installed and also they said my wi-fi is bad,(which is news to me).

This has strengthened my intention to have the meter removed (if I have to pay then I will do so, preferably not paying Ovo), settle my bill and change supplier ,(reading the links that Scot_39 posted has helped me stick to that decision).