Item ordered is too heavy for advertised use and too heavy to return - what to do?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

PHK said:

It says that the purchaser must arrange a courier for unwanted items. 

 

Edit: spelling

Has to state the cost if can’t be returned via normal post as per (m) of schedule 2 with section 35 relieving the consumer of the cost return if omitted.  

sheramber

(m) of schedule 2 with section 35 relieving the consumer of the cost return if omitted.  

of what?

Boith Which and Citizen's Advice only state you must be told you are responsible for the return costs, which they do

How would the retailer know what  courier the buyer will use or what they will charge?

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/help-and-customer-service/return-policy

• Unwanted items returned to us are done so at your own expense

https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk/help-and-customer-service/terms-and-conditions 

We are not responsible for any return costs for unwanted items, you will need to arrange for the shipping yourself and ensure their safe return.

PHK

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

It says that the purchaser must arrange a courier for unwanted items. 

 

Edit: spelling

Has to state the cost if can’t be returned via normal post as per (m) of schedule 2 with section 35 relieving the consumer of the cost return if omitted.  

I think you’ve misunderstood. That’s if the seller arranges return, they have to quote the cost. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

sheramber said:

(m) of schedule 2 with section 35 relieving the consumer of the cost return if omitted.  

of what?

Apologies I was being lazy, as it's cancellation rights it's the CCRs (The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013).

Which and Citizen's Advice offer guidance which probably has some value for covering the basics of the run of the mill but often lacks depth due to being "bite sized" information.

For more technical or less common aspects the legislation itself is the best source or a source such as Business Companion for more in-depth guidance on topics that may require some clarity or stray a little from the basics.  

PHK said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

It says that the purchaser must arrange a courier for unwanted items. 

 

Edit: spelling

Has to state the cost if can’t be returned via normal post as per (m) of schedule 2 with section 35 relieving the consumer of the cost return if omitted.  

I think you’ve misunderstood. That’s if the seller arranges return, they have to quote the cost. 

Whilst I'm always happy to be corrected, the paragraph stating the consumer is not to bear to the cost of return for goods purchased under a distance contract where they can't be return via normal post if the trader has not provided the cost of return specifically refers to the paragraph stipulating what occurs when the trader hasn't offered to collect the goods and instead the consumer must send/hand them back.  

Subject to the delivery date and any durable info given, OP may not be responsible for the cost of return if they exercise the right to cancel. 




https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/13

13.—(1) Before the consumer is bound by a distance contract, the trader—

(a)must give or make available to the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner, and in a way appropriate to the means of distance communication used, and

(b)if a right to cancel exists, must give or make available to the consumer a cancellation form as set out in part B of Schedule 3.

(5) If the trader has not complied with paragraph (1) in respect of paragraph (g), (h) or (m) of Schedule 2, the consumer is not to bear the charges or costs referred to in those paragraphs.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35

Return of goods in the event of cancellation

35.—(1) Where a sales contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1), it is the trader's responsibility to collect the goods if—

(a)the trader has offered to collect them, or

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, the goods were delivered to the consumer's home when the contract was entered into and could not, by their nature, normally be returned by post.

(2) If it is not the trader's responsibility under paragraph (1) to collect the goods, the consumer must—

(a)send them back, or

(b)hand them over to the trader or to a person authorised by the trader to receive them.

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

(6) The contract is to be treated as including a term that the trader must bear the direct cost of the consumer returning goods under paragraph (2) where paragraph (5)(b) applies.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2

(m)where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;

Okell

I'd agree with the view put forward by @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

If (1) the OP has the right to cancel*** this as a distance contract, and if (2) "the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post", and if (3) VP have not told the OP how much it will cost the OP to return them, then (4) VP have to pay the cost of return, not the OP.

The fact VP don't know how much it will cost to return the goods is neither here nor there.  The law says they have to if they want the cost of return to be borne by the OP.  If they (VP) can't do that then they either have to accept that they must bear the cost of return, or decide whether they should stop selling at a distance


***  The reason I previously asked the OP when did they take delivery of the screen was to try to determine if they were still within the 14 days cancellation period, but the OP never answered that question.

But I do wonder whether the cancellation period has in any case been extended because VP might not have complied with para (l) of Schedule 2(?).

While VP's T&Cs do refer to what I presume is their own 30 day returns policy, I'm not sure that they adequately explain the consumer's statutory right to cancel under the regs as required by para (l) of Schedule 2 of the regs.

If VP haven't covered that requirement then the cancellation period is extended by up to a year.

Some traders are able adequately to cover in their T&Cs both the statutory right to cancel and (if they have one) their own returns policy.  I don't see why VP can't too.

Sooler

Heavy screens can be used with plasterboard walls if a stud is inserted to support it, see

https://www.mybuilder.com/questions/v/50683/supporting-a-shower-and-screen-to-plasterboard-wall

Difficult if the walls are already tiled.

dilby

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Perhaps I'm missing it, but no mention of the cost of returning items that can't be returned via normal post on the VP website?

If so, and nothing in any durable info given to OP, the trader is to bear the return costs in event of exercising the right to cancel. 

Sorry I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you able to elaborate for a thicko like me?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

dilby said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Perhaps I'm missing it, but no mention of the cost of returning items that can't be returned via normal post on the VP website?

If so, and nothing in any durable info given to OP, the trader is to bear the return costs in event of exercising the right to cancel. 

Sorry I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you able to elaborate for a thicko like me?

Sorry They should tell you have much it costs to return big heavy things that you can't just nip down the Post Office with, they don't seem to state this on their website.

If they sent an order confirmation and/or order dispatch email it's best to check those to see if they mention the cost of returning such things and also if they gave you paperwork with the goods this should be checked as well.

If they don't mention the costs anywhere they should cover them, it will probably take you paing and then trying to reclaim the money.

As another poster said, date of delivery is important you have 14 days to specifically advise VP you are:

"exercising your right to cancel the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013" 

If you are within 14 days from delivery I'd send that statement to them immediately via email, you the have 14 days from saying the above to sort out the return.

Once done and they refund you you'd send a letter before action for the return costs and then look towards small claims if they still don't pay.

The legislation is clear so I'd expect them fold at some point but not with ease sadly  

dilby

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

dilby said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Perhaps I'm missing it, but no mention of the cost of returning items that can't be returned via normal post on the VP website?

If so, and nothing in any durable info given to OP, the trader is to bear the return costs in event of exercising the right to cancel. 

Sorry I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you able to elaborate for a thicko like me?

Sorry They should tell you have much it costs to return big heavy things that you can't just nip down the Post Office with, they don't seem to state this on their website.

If they sent an order confirmation and/or order dispatch email it's best to check those to see if they mention the cost of returning such things and also if they gave you paperwork with the goods this should be checked as well.

If they don't mention the costs anywhere they should cover them, it will probably take you paing and then trying to reclaim the money.

As another poster said, date of delivery is important you have 14 days to specifically advise VP you are:

"exercising your right to cancel the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013" 

If you are within 14 days from delivery I'd send that statement to them immediately via email, you the have 14 days from saying the above to sort out the return.

Once done and they refund you you'd send a letter before action for the return costs and then look towards small claims if they still don't pay.

The legislation is clear so I'd expect them fold at some point but not with ease sadly  

Thanks for the reply. In regards to dates, this item was ordered back at the start of May and delivered a couple of days after so we are just over 30 days now. I've left them know I was returning ot for a while now and they've extended the returns window for 2 weeks for me to allow me to find a courier I can send it back with.

The problem is I cannot find a single one except for ones that require a pallet which i dont have as it did not come with one in first place - im then getting into the realms of getting a pallet and strapping everything up etc which i should no have to do.

Their returns page states nothing about the cost of returning large things as you have suggested.

Are you please able to shed some light as to what legislation covers this so i can point it to them in terms of any claim. I have looked at the 'The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013' document online and i can't find anything that covers return services - section 35 seems to come closest but not far enough.

Okell

dilby said:

... Are you please able to shed some light as to what legislation covers this so i can point it to them in terms of any claim. I have looked at the 'The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013' document online and i can't find anything that covers return services - section 35 seems to come closest but not far enough.

s35(5)(b) The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk):

"(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2."   [My bold for emphasis]

Para (m) of Schedule 2 The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk) says:

"(m) where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;"

So, as the goods cannot by their nature normally be returned by post, the seller must tell you when you buy them how much it will cost you to return them.  If they never did that (and you need to check to see what you were told when you bought it) then they must pay for the return.  And if they're going to pay for it, they might as well organise it them selves.

But wait and see what others think...

[NB - this is very important because it might decide whether you can rely on the above - (1) what actual date did you take delivery of the screen, (2) when did you notify VP of the issue, and (3) precisley what did you tell them?]