Third party claim on guilty party's insurance

Frog_Prince

About three months ago, my car’s front nearside wing was damaged at a roundabout by a driver who had lined up in the left-most lane, marked for the second exit, while intending to turn sharply right to go to the third exit (the queue on the left is always shorter than on the right). At the scene, he asked me who I thought was at fault, and I told him that it was plainly him. He did not deny liability, but told me to take matters up with my insurer. 

My excess and NCD far outweighed the repair estimates, and I texted the culprit that it would be economic not to use insurers. He ignored me. I texted him later to say that even if he paid only 50% of the repair bill, it would still be cheaper for both of us. He asked me again who was at fault, and I again said it was him. He told me to take up the matter with my insurer, perhaps thinking I would not.

My insurer suggested I make a third party claim, which I did. It turned out he hadn't told his insurer anything. They pursued him for details, but he did not respond for weeks. When he did, they had to go back to him for "further evidence".

Two months after the accident, the culprit texted me to say he would pay 50% after all, because he did not want to lose his NCD. 

I was not feeling generous, however. The culprit had arrogantly dismissed my offer when I made it, wasted two months of everyone's time and still did not deny liability, betting that he could make me pay for his error. I asked him to pay the whole bill if he wanted to save his NCD. He disappeared again. 

His insurer has now e-mailed me saying that they advise me to “go through” my insurer “since liability is now disputed”. They say their investigations are continuing, three months on. It was not a complex accident.

This is hardly credible: the culprit disputes liability three months after the accident. If he felt I was at fault, he would have stated that immediately. I have a transcript of his text messages, at no point does he deny liability or offer a different view of events. 

Can his insurer insist that I use my insurance policy, incurring loss of excess etc.? It has also been suggested to me that I make a claim against him directly in a court. 

Aretnap

You have few rights when claiming through a third party insurer. They work for the other driver, not for you. Their only legal obligation to you is that if you successfully take the other driver to court, they have to cover whatever money he is ordered to pay you. Everything beyond that is a matter of negotiation. 

So basically, if they won't play ball, your options are
(1) Make a court claim against the other driver
(2) Claim through your own insurers (who do work for you) and let them worry about the prices of refusing costs from the third party insurer or
(3) If it's minor damage, chalk it down to experience and fix it yourself.

DullGreyGuy

Frog_Prince said:

About three months ago, my car’s front nearside wing was damaged at a roundabout by a driver who had lined up in the left-most lane, marked for the second exit, while intending to turn sharply right to go to the third exit (the queue on the left is always shorter than on the right). At the scene, he asked me who I thought was at fault, and I told him that it was plainly him. He did not deny liability, but told me to take matters up with my insurer. 

My excess and NCD far outweighed the repair estimates, and I texted the culprit that it would be economic not to use insurers. He ignored me. I texted him later to say that even if he paid only 50% of the repair bill, it would still be cheaper for both of us. He asked me again who was at fault, and I again said it was him. He told me to take up the matter with my insurer, perhaps thinking I would not.

My insurer suggested I make a third party claim, which I did. It turned out he hadn't told his insurer anything. They pursued him for details, but he did not respond for weeks. When he did, they had to go back to him for "further evidence".

Two months after the accident, the culprit texted me to say he would pay 50% after all, because he did not want to lose his NCD. 

I was not feeling generous, however. The culprit had arrogantly dismissed my offer when I made it, wasted two months of everyone's time and still did not deny liability, betting that he could make me pay for his error. I asked him to pay the whole bill if he wanted to save his NCD. He disappeared again. 

His insurer has now e-mailed me saying that they advise me to “go through” my insurer “since liability is now disputed”. They say their investigations are continuing, three months on. It was not a complex accident.

This is hardly credible: the culprit disputes liability three months after the accident. If he felt I was at fault, he would have stated that immediately. I have a transcript of his text messages, at no point does he deny liability or offer a different view of events. 

Can his insurer insist that I use my insurance policy, incurring loss of excess etc.? It has also been suggested to me that I make a claim against him directly in a court. 

They cannot force you to use your insurance but they can refuse to deal with you until you get a court order against the driver of their vehicle.

What was the damage to their vehicle? It seems like you offered a 50/50 settlement at one point which yes would mean they have to pay half your repairs but you too would have to pay 50% of their repairs. 

Roundabouts are unfortunately notoriously painful to deal with from a claims perspective with many ending up as disputes and split liabilities when there is no video evidence or witnesses.

LightFlare

If the contact was between him and your near side, that sounds as though you cut across him as you were expecting him to take the exit from the lane he was in and not continue around the roundabout

Any chance you can post a diagram and/or street view of the location etc

Very likely to be a 50/50 claim with the insurers 

chrisw

Frog_Prince said:

This is hardly credible: the culprit disputes liability three months after the accident. If he felt I was at fault, he would have stated that immediately. I have a transcript of his text messages, at no point does he deny liability or offer a different view of events. 

Him not denying liability is not the same thing as him admitting liability.

sheramber

Insurance companies advice you should not admit liability.

prowla

LightFlare said:

If the contact was between him and your near side, that sounds as though you cut across him as you were expecting him to take the exit from the lane he was in and not continue around the roundabout

Any chance you can post a diagram and/or street view of the location etc

Very likely to be a 50/50 claim with the insurers 

From the description, the other driver was in a lane marked for exit and instead cut into the OP's lane.

DullGreyGuy

prowla said:

LightFlare said:

If the contact was between him and your near side, that sounds as though you cut across him as you were expecting him to take the exit from the lane he was in and not continue around the roundabout

Any chance you can post a diagram and/or street view of the location etc

Very likely to be a 50/50 claim with the insurers 

From the description, the other driver was in a lane marked for exit and instead cut into the OP's lane.

From the OP's light description, we haven't heard the TP's description. Even from the OP we havent heard how the two cars came to make contact... the TP was in lane 1, OP in lane 2, did the TP cut into lane 2? Did the OP move out to lane 1 assuming it was empty without checking? Even if a vehicle is in the wrong lane you cannot just drive into.

Having dealt with thousands of roundabout collision claims, its rare that the two parties have the same recollection of the event, some are exceptionally different

prowla

DullGreyGuy said:

prowla said:

LightFlare said:

If the contact was between him and your near side, that sounds as though you cut across him as you were expecting him to take the exit from the lane he was in and not continue around the roundabout

Any chance you can post a diagram and/or street view of the location etc

Very likely to be a 50/50 claim with the insurers 

From the description, the other driver was in a lane marked for exit and instead cut into the OP's lane.

From the OP's light description, we haven't heard the TP's description. Even from the OP we havent heard how the two cars came to make contact... the TP was in lane 1, OP in lane 2, did the TP cut into lane 2? Did the OP move out to lane 1 assuming it was empty without checking? Even if a vehicle is in the wrong lane you cannot just drive into.

Having dealt with thousands of roundabout collision claims, its rare that the two parties have the same recollection of the event, some are exceptionally different

The OP said:

Frog_Prince said:

About three months ago, my car’s front nearside wing was damaged at a roundabout by a driver who had lined up in the left-most lane, marked for the second exit, while intending to turn sharply right to go to the third exit (the queue on the left is always shorter than on the right).

DullGreyGuy

prowla said:

DullGreyGuy said:

prowla said:

LightFlare said:

If the contact was between him and your near side, that sounds as though you cut across him as you were expecting him to take the exit from the lane he was in and not continue around the roundabout

Any chance you can post a diagram and/or street view of the location etc

Very likely to be a 50/50 claim with the insurers 

From the description, the other driver was in a lane marked for exit and instead cut into the OP's lane.

From the OP's light description, we haven't heard the TP's description. Even from the OP we havent heard how the two cars came to make contact... the TP was in lane 1, OP in lane 2, did the TP cut into lane 2? Did the OP move out to lane 1 assuming it was empty without checking? Even if a vehicle is in the wrong lane you cannot just drive into.

Having dealt with thousands of roundabout collision claims, its rare that the two parties have the same recollection of the event, some are exceptionally different

The OP said:

Frog_Prince said:

About three months ago, my car’s front nearside wing was damaged at a roundabout by a driver who had lined up in the left-most lane, marked for the second exit, while intending to turn sharply right to go to the third exit (the queue on the left is always shorter than on the right).

yes, that doesn't tell us how the two vehicles came together. As per the quoted post, did the TP cut into the lane to their right or did the OP assume the TP had exited and so drifted into the left most lane which was still occupied?

The other weird thing about it... if the left most lane is marked for exit 2 which lane do you take for exit 1?

prowla

DullGreyGuy said:

prowla said:

DullGreyGuy said:

prowla said:

LightFlare said:

If the contact was between him and your near side, that sounds as though you cut across him as you were expecting him to take the exit from the lane he was in and not continue around the roundabout

Any chance you can post a diagram and/or street view of the location etc

Very likely to be a 50/50 claim with the insurers 

From the description, the other driver was in a lane marked for exit and instead cut into the OP's lane.

From the OP's light description, we haven't heard the TP's description. Even from the OP we havent heard how the two cars came to make contact... the TP was in lane 1, OP in lane 2, did the TP cut into lane 2? Did the OP move out to lane 1 assuming it was empty without checking? Even if a vehicle is in the wrong lane you cannot just drive into.

Having dealt with thousands of roundabout collision claims, its rare that the two parties have the same recollection of the event, some are exceptionally different

The OP said:

Frog_Prince said:

About three months ago, my car’s front nearside wing was damaged at a roundabout by a driver who had lined up in the left-most lane, marked for the second exit, while intending to turn sharply right to go to the third exit (the queue on the left is always shorter than on the right).

yes, that doesn't tell us how the two vehicles came together. As per the quoted post, did the TP cut into the lane to their right or did the OP assume the TP had exited and so drifted into the left most lane which was still occupied?

The other weird thing about it... if the left most lane is marked for exit 2 which lane do you take for exit 1?

Presumably the one marked for exit leading up to exit 1.

You are right, however in pointing out that we're not able to tell who had right of way without further details of the road markings (or a map/picture of the location), as it could have been that the lane 1 was marked exit only (ie. left arrow on road), there may have been cross-hatched markings, or it could've been one of those roundabouts where the lanes spiral outwards do you have to change lanes to continue around.