First car for 17 year old

forgotmyname

The actual insurance group is not 100% reliable on the premium.  Years back when they only had 20 groups my group 18
car was cheaper to insure than a group 13 car. I do not bother looking at the groups anymore.

Whilst getting quotes for a 1st car 2 seemingly identical cars came back with different prices. 
Both...   Ford KA, 2004, LX, Black, 1.3L engine and yet 2 different prices?

Goudy

That's because your risk profile has changed.
Due to things like age and experience the risk variable of the vehicles grouping doesn't play as big a part in the premium calculation.

It's a lot more complicated than this simple example, but think of the risks being multiplication factors that work out the premium.

An older, experienced driver might have a multiplication of 2x2x2x20 minus 50% no claims discount. (80)

A new/young driver might have a multiplication of 5x5x5x20 with 0% discount for the very same vehicle. (2500)

Circumstances beyond their control are the 5x5x5 as these are based on things like age and experience, but the 20 is the cars risk.
Drop this risk variable to say 10 halves the total. The same would go for having a 50% discount.

So with experience/age/discount the cars risk factor doesn't have a big an impact on premium.

But that is just a simple example, there's far more in it than that.

Some insurance companies might target experienced drivers between 40 and 50 years old or some other market, so have unreasonably high premiums for anyone else as they don't fit the risk profile of their targeted market.

Which is why you should shop around when it's time to renew.
Your insurance company might have changed targets or you might have moved out of their target market in between policies.

400ixl

Ectophile said:

Morris Minor, or similar aged vehicle?  Insure it as a classic car.

Classic policies do not tend to qualify for building NCD.

Price is not the only consideration, there is no way I would put any family member in the micro cars like the Picanto, C1 etc. Although saying that they are also unlikely to be the cheapest to insure due to the number of new drivers who do pick them thinking they are a good option.

We bought our daughters car whilst she was still learning and have never payed more than £800 a year for fully comp in the 3 years she has been driving (now 2.5 years on a full license). In her case a 2 year old Hyundai i20 with the larger and more powerful 1.2 variant (cheaper than the 1.0 or 1.2 lower powered). The i10 for example (not that I would ever put her in one) was over double the cost as it is a common new driver car. The same went for the Polo (30% more than the i20, but 40% less than the Up).

It is possible to get a decent car and insure it for a decent amount, you just have to find the right one.

As for Suzuki being mentioned, they have always been a higher cost car to insure, regardless of the insurance group. Not bad cars, but unlikely to work in this case.

Some good advice in the thread to be following up on though.

caprikid1

Ectophile said:

Morris Minor, or similar aged vehicle?  Insure it as a classic car.

Don't tend to want drivers under the age of 25 , although Landrover Defenders used to be good as did classic tractors.

forgotmyname

My classic policies had restrictions that I must have an everyday car not just the classics, they also had to be garaged to get my £99
and sub £99 quotes where my normal everyday car cost £300+ to insure and less valuable.

daivid

Ectophile said:

Morris Minor, or similar aged vehicle?  Insure it as a classic car.

Ran a dummy quite for a fictitious 17yr old son to insure my MM getting a quote of £2173 with £900 excess, for comparison I switched the car to a 10 year old small engine Vauxhall Corsa getting a quote of £1542 with £945 excess. Not sure a classic is the way to go anymore, plus unless the child is mechanically minded running a classic probably won’t be for them coupled with the reality that decent 'cheap' classics aren’t so cheap anymore (MMs certainly). Tried a quote for a 90s Rover Mini which came out slightly more than the MM. There probably are obscure/undesirable older cars that could work out cheap to insure and run but I suspect a modern(ish) bland car is going to be the most straightforward way to go.

MouldyOldDough

daivid said:

Ectophile said:

Morris Minor, or similar aged vehicle?  Insure it as a classic car.

Ran a dummy quite for a fictitious 17yr old son to insure my MM getting a quote of £2173 with £900 excess, for comparison I switched the car to a 10 year old small engine Vauxhall Corsa getting a quote of £1542 with £945 excess. Not sure a classic is the way to go anymore, plus unless the child is mechanically minded running a classic probably won’t be for them coupled with the reality that decent 'cheap' classics aren’t so cheap anymore (MMs certainly). Tried a quote for a 90s Rover Mini which came out slightly more than the MM. There probably are obscure/undesirable older cars that could work out cheap to insure and run but I suspect a modern(ish) bland car is going to be the most straightforward way to go.

Or age dramatically - As a 60 year old with 40+ year clean driving record - I would be extremely unhappy to be charged more than £200 comprehensive on a group 12 car !!

And even then - I still get my £30-50 cashback through Quidco !

stuhse

WellKnownSid said:

born_again said:

At the other end look for cars that are out of the norm for a 1st time driver.

My (now 18 year old) just (May 24) renewed the insurance on his brown 163hp 5 cylinder Volvo estate for £945 (first year was £1250-ish).

The trick is to think outside the box…

Any chance you (or anyone reading this) could educate us a little more.  I can't figure out how a more expensive powerful car that will undoubtedly be in a higher insurance group can be cheaper to insure.  The figures you are quoting are half what my friends with teenagers are paying for things like clio's and Hyundai i10.  What's the model and age of car ? Which insurance company ?  I'm very interested because I'll be in the same boat this time next year when my son turns 17 and I want to buy a car to minimise insurance costs.   We have an older son who we insured on a Renault clio with a black box, and that was £1300 for his first year 9 years ago.  
I always thought the insurance group was the 'car factor ' which multiplied up the insurance cost, but people on here seem to be saying not....so how do you know what is a cheap to insure car if not from its insurance group ?

400ixl

As I put before, the likes of an i10 are extremely popular with teens and as such there is a good statistical model for what the risks are.

Statistically more accidents for teens happen when they have friends in the car and are driving at night.

Teens are also fashion conscious and far more likely to go with friends with cars that they don't mind being seen in. An old Volvo in brown does not fit that bill.

Insurance group is a factor, but a higher group does not correlate directly to the policy price. There are many other factors that they take into consideration.

For our daughter an i10 (not that I would ever put her in one) with a 1.0 litre engine was considerably more expensive than an i20 with the more powerful variant of the 1.2 litre engine. Have never paid more than £900 (first year and now in the £600 range at 21) for her without needing to go near black box policies (they were more expensive or at best the same).

We could have got her a Mercedes C200 insurance for less than an i10, but a Mercedes A180 was double as it is again an aspirational teen car.

Popular teen cars are often the higher cost, due to an abundance of statistical information for them to model.

WellKnownSid

stuhse said:

WellKnownSid said:

born_again said:

At the other end look for cars that are out of the norm for a 1st time driver.

My (now 18 year old) just (May 24) renewed the insurance on his brown 163hp 5 cylinder Volvo estate for £945 (first year was £1250-ish).

The trick is to think outside the box…

Any chance you (or anyone reading this) could educate us a little more.  I can't figure out how a more expensive powerful car that will undoubtedly be in a higher insurance group can be cheaper to insure.  The figures you are quoting are half what my friends with teenagers are paying for things like clio's and Hyundai i10.  What's the model and age of car ? Which insurance company ?  I'm very interested because I'll be in the same boat this time next year when my son turns 17 and I want to buy a car to minimise insurance costs.   We have an older son who we insured on a Renault clio with a black box, and that was £1300 for his first year 9 years ago.  
I always thought the insurance group was the 'car factor ' which multiplied up the insurance cost, but people on here seem to be saying not....so how do you know what is a cheap to insure car if not from its insurance group ?

My son drives a 2012 V60.  On paper it's a far safer bet than a similar age Renault Clio - I bet that won't come with so many airbags or active city braking to stop the car before it runs over a pedestrian.