Appealing job interview after rejection

LightFlare

gwynlas said:

Having worked in Social Services and the NHS it does not matter if many  of the interview panel are  friends and you are already carrying out the role. At interview you have to treat the panel as a bunch of strangers and explain exactly how you do the role and why you think your knowledge nd experience is relevant, At one time I had to be interviewed three times for a role until funding became permanent. Another time the job went to a personal friend of my manager who then expected me to provide training as I had been seconded into it for 12 months.

and vice versa

Ive marked people down on shortlisting for not stating something on their application form even though  I knew they had/could do something

bobblebob

LightFlare said:

gwynlas said:

Having worked in Social Services and the NHS it does not matter if many  of the interview panel are  friends and you are already carrying out the role. At interview you have to treat the panel as a bunch of strangers and explain exactly how you do the role and why you think your knowledge nd experience is relevant, At one time I had to be interviewed three times for a role until funding became permanent. Another time the job went to a personal friend of my manager who then expected me to provide training as I had been seconded into it for 12 months.

and vice versa

Ive marked people down on shortlisting for not stating something on their application form even though  I knew they had/could do something

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

Its a long standing joke you can 9/10 times know who will get the job before the interviews because theyre friends with the recruiting manager or such.

Its been pointed out on many feedback surveys from staff and even management

Marcon

bobblebob said:

LightFlare said:

gwynlas said:

Having worked in Social Services and the NHS it does not matter if many  of the interview panel are  friends and you are already carrying out the role. At interview you have to treat the panel as a bunch of strangers and explain exactly how you do the role and why you think your knowledge nd experience is relevant, At one time I had to be interviewed three times for a role until funding became permanent. Another time the job went to a personal friend of my manager who then expected me to provide training as I had been seconded into it for 12 months.

and vice versa

Ive marked people down on shortlisting for not stating something on their application form even though  I knew they had/could do something

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

Its a long standing joke you can 9/10 times know who will get the job before the interviews because theyre friends with the recruiting manager or such.

Its been pointed out on many feedback surveys from staff and even management

Clearly this was the 1/10 where the outcome hadn't been pre-determined.

DullGreyGuy

prowla said:

A system which scores you down for saying that it is your current role which you've been doing on a secondment basis for 18 months seems nonsensical.

You would have to invent differences between your currrent role and the identical offered role?

If the reason is indeed that, then the people who wrote the assessment evaluation are plainly incompetent.

All depends on the team, sometimes a secondee will do the identical role as a perm but other times there are differences. In the Client Management team of my current place only Perms "own" relationships with clients for stability whereas temps/secondees etc will do most the same legwork but won't be the official point of contact. 

As a secondee they could have also answered it in relation to their permanent role to the secondment to the permanent role they're applying for.

If they literally said "no difference" then they are unlikely to tick too many boxes on the score sheet. 

Traceyg

They could have answered that they are employed as (substantive role) and have been seconded as whatever for the last 18 months. Could have discussed how different the role is and what they have learnt from being on secondment and what they could offer further going forward.

They can ask to see the scoring but I doubt it will make a difference.

LightFlare

bobblebob said:

LightFlare said:

gwynlas said:

Having worked in Social Services and the NHS it does not matter if many  of the interview panel are  friends and you are already carrying out the role. At interview you have to treat the panel as a bunch of strangers and explain exactly how you do the role and why you think your knowledge nd experience is relevant, At one time I had to be interviewed three times for a role until funding became permanent. Another time the job went to a personal friend of my manager who then expected me to provide training as I had been seconded into it for 12 months.

and vice versa

Ive marked people down on shortlisting for not stating something on their application form even though  I knew they had/could do something

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

Its a long standing joke you can 9/10 times know who will get the job before the interviews because theyre friends with the recruiting manager or such.

Its been pointed out on many feedback surveys from staff and even management

Maybe that’s why I haven’t progressed as far in my career as I could have done.
Integrity seems to be an undesired trait - they just want agreeable yes people (and thus part of why the NHS is in such a bad state)

Undervalued

bobblebob said:

LightFlare said:

gwynlas said:

Having worked in Social Services and the NHS it does not matter if many  of the interview panel are  friends and you are already carrying out the role. At interview you have to treat the panel as a bunch of strangers and explain exactly how you do the role and why you think your knowledge nd experience is relevant, At one time I had to be interviewed three times for a role until funding became permanent. Another time the job went to a personal friend of my manager who then expected me to provide training as I had been seconded into it for 12 months.

and vice versa

Ive marked people down on shortlisting for not stating something on their application form even though  I knew they had/could do something

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

Its a long standing joke you can 9/10 times know who will get the job before the interviews because theyre friends with the recruiting manager or such.

Its been pointed out on many feedback surveys from staff and even management

To a greater or lesser extent this is true in most organisations if we are honest!

It may breach internal rules but it is not, in itself, unlawful. 

LinLui

Undervalued said:

bobblebob said:

LightFlare said:

gwynlas said:

Having worked in Social Services and the NHS it does not matter if many  of the interview panel are  friends and you are already carrying out the role. At interview you have to treat the panel as a bunch of strangers and explain exactly how you do the role and why you think your knowledge nd experience is relevant, At one time I had to be interviewed three times for a role until funding became permanent. Another time the job went to a personal friend of my manager who then expected me to provide training as I had been seconded into it for 12 months.

and vice versa

Ive marked people down on shortlisting for not stating something on their application form even though  I knew they had/could do something

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

Its a long standing joke you can 9/10 times know who will get the job before the interviews because theyre friends with the recruiting manager or such.

Its been pointed out on many feedback surveys from staff and even management

To a greater or lesser extent this is true in most organisations if we are honest!

It may breach internal rules but it is not, in itself, unlawful. 

Quite - most employers do it much of the time. There was an interesting piece of research a few years ago that found that the biggest factor in youth unemployment was parental / familial unemployment. Not education or anything else. Because traditionally parents in employment had always "tipped off" their own children or the children of family members about job in their own workplaces, and despite massive changes in employment patterns this still remained the main access route into jobs by young adults. There has always been an element of "who you know" rather than "what you know", and whilst it is assumed that this doesn't get the best candidate for the role, it could equally be argued that it does because you know what / who you are getting. 

And oddly, nobody ever complains that they got the job because they knew somebody / were the favoured person; but it's a very convenient excuse for those who didn't get the job to trot out whether or not it is true, because then it is never down to them as to why they didn't get the job. I recently interviewed for a role, and I know for a fact that a couple of the people who didn't get the job said this about the successful candidate - that she only got the job because she knew everyone on the interview panel and it was obvious she was going to get the job no matter what. The thing is, she got the job because she smashed the interview, had all the right skills in buckets, and no other candidate could hold a candle to her. Did those interviewing her know this before the interview? Yes. Did she get a single allowance for that fact? No.

TELLIT01

bobblebob said:

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

It's not just the NHS.  Many public sector organisations are told they have to advertise externally.  I have twice been on the 'wrong end' of that process.  I was interviewed for a civilian role with our local police force.  When I was sat waiting to go in for interview, I could see the screen showing interview times and names.  I was the only applicant out of 6 or 7 without (internal) after my name.  Incredible to believe, but I didn't get the job.  On another occasion another public sector job was advertised with two totally unrelated area of expertise on the list as 'required' and I had both.  I received a letter to say I hadn't been shortlisted, which came as a complete shock.  I phoned their HR department and asked if the job had gone to a current employee and they had only advertised externally because they had to?  The response of 'I'm not at liberty to answer that question' really did answer it.

bobblebob

TELLIT01 said:

bobblebob said:

Thing with NHS (certainly departments ive worked in) while they follow the protocol, you know they clearly have a candidate lined up for the role and just going through formalities.

It's not just the NHS.  Many public sector organisations are told they have to advertise externally.  I have twice been on the 'wrong end' of that process.  I was interviewed for a civilian role with our local police force.  When I was sat waiting to go in for interview, I could see the screen showing interview times and names.  I was the only applicant out of 6 or 7 without (internal) after my name.  Incredible to believe, but I didn't get the job.  On another occasion another public sector job was advertised with two totally unrelated area of expertise on the list as 'required' and I had both.  I received a letter to say I hadn't been shortlisted, which came as a complete shock.  I phoned their HR department and asked if the job had gone to a current employee and they had only advertised externally because they had to?  The response of 'I'm not at liberty to answer that question' really did answer it.

Yea my last job advertised internally and externally. Someone internal applied and didnt get it. An external did

They were told during feedback that although you did well in the interview, they wanted to recruit someone external to bring a fresh pair of eyes to the role.

Thats fine, but you just wasted everyones time with the internal applicants