Tax credits to UC - in year finalisation

Yamor

michaels said:

Yamor said:

I assumed the OP had just mistyped.

It can't be that there was a gap between the TC claim ending and the UC claim, because then TCs are only supposed to include income until the end of the TC claim, not until the start of the UC claim.

Now there is a thought.  Only claim TC up to the day before pay day and then claim UC from the day after pay day....

You're right from a tax credits perspective, but no need to leave a gap of a day for UC.

That's because for those paid monthy, whether you claim a day before payday, or a day after, either way your first assessment period will include one month's wages.

Also, it is easier said than done to leave a gap of a few days, because nowadays UC automatically backdate to migration day if you claim UC within approximately a month of that date.

HillStreetBlues

Yamor said:

michaels said:

Yamor said:

I assumed the OP had just mistyped.

It can't be that there was a gap between the TC claim ending and the UC claim, because then TCs are only supposed to include income until the end of the TC claim, not until the start of the UC claim.

Now there is a thought.  Only claim TC up to the day before pay day and then claim UC from the day after pay day....

You're right from a tax credits perspective, but no need to leave a gap of a day for UC.

That's because for those paid monthy, whether you claim a day before payday, or a day after, either way your first assessment period will include one month's wages.

Also, it is easier said than done to leave a gap of a few days, because nowadays UC automatically backdate to migration day if you claim UC within approximately a month of that date.

It could depend on the timings of the AP.
Eg if OP first claimed on the 27th March a day before payday, the OP would have been paid wages twice in the first AP.

Yamor

HillStreetBlues said:

Yamor said:

michaels said:

Yamor said:

I assumed the OP had just mistyped.

It can't be that there was a gap between the TC claim ending and the UC claim, because then TCs are only supposed to include income until the end of the TC claim, not until the start of the UC claim.

Now there is a thought.  Only claim TC up to the day before pay day and then claim UC from the day after pay day....

You're right from a tax credits perspective, but no need to leave a gap of a day for UC.

That's because for those paid monthy, whether you claim a day before payday, or a day after, either way your first assessment period will include one month's wages.

Also, it is easier said than done to leave a gap of a few days, because nowadays UC automatically backdate to migration day if you claim UC within approximately a month of that date.

It could depend on the timings of the AP.
Eg if OP first claimed on the 27th March a day before payday, the OP would have been paid wages twice in the first AP.

I would look to get the 26th April wages pushed forwards, in that case...

sheramber

https://www.litrg.org.uk/benefits/moving-universal-credit/ending-tax-credits/year-finalisation

Justine’s actual income from employment received between 6 April and 30 November 2023 was made up of £10,476 plus £5,000 bonus making a total of £15,476. This is the figure Justine will put on her review form.

HMRC will then convert this figure to an annual figure – £23,699 (£15,476/239 x 366 NB. 2024 is a leap year). This figure will be compared to her previous year income of £20,000. As this has increased by more than £2,500, her award will be finalised using an income of £21,199. This will be pro-rated for the 239 days of her award and income of £13,843.06 will be used in the calculation.

However, Justine’s award was paid between April 2023 and November 2023 based on an income of £20,000, not £21,199 and so Justine will have an overpayment of around £321.

peteuk

Yamor said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Yamor said:

michaels said:

Yamor said:

I assumed the OP had just mistyped.

It can't be that there was a gap between the TC claim ending and the UC claim, because then TCs are only supposed to include income until the end of the TC claim, not until the start of the UC claim.

Now there is a thought.  Only claim TC up to the day before pay day and then claim UC from the day after pay day....

You're right from a tax credits perspective, but no need to leave a gap of a day for UC.

That's because for those paid monthy, whether you claim a day before payday, or a day after, either way your first assessment period will include one month's wages.

Also, it is easier said than done to leave a gap of a few days, because nowadays UC automatically backdate to migration day if you claim UC within approximately a month of that date.

It could depend on the timings of the AP.
Eg if OP first claimed on the 27th March a day before payday, the OP would have been paid wages twice in the first AP.

I would look to get the 26th April wages pushed forwards, in that case...

However although payday was 28th it was paid 26 due to the weekend, which most employers do. 

Danien

Am I dense, I still can't work out how they got to 28,000 with the calculation? Can someone enlighten me please?

Danien

Yamor said:

mummy_2_be said:

Thank you for your replies. My salary paid date is 28th (in April this was the 26th as it fell on a Sunday) and I applied for UC on the 30th as per my migration notice. Does it mean I cannot appeal or get them to look again at this?

This issue has been heard by the Upper Tribunal already, and the government won.

https://www.gov.uk/administrative-appeals-tribunal-decisions/his-majestys-revenue-and-customs-v-as-tc-2023-ukut-67-aac

OK, I read this and it appears in my reading to support the income for the relevant period in this case being 0. The decision makes clear that relevant income is income received during the part year period in question. In this case the part year period according to the OP is 06/04/24 to 24/04/24. No income was received during this period. Income wasn't received until 26/04/24.

Surely HMRC can't have it both ways?

Danien

michaels said:

Yamor said:

I assumed the OP had just mistyped.

It can't be that there was a gap between the TC claim ending and the UC claim, because then TCs are only supposed to include income until the end of the TC claim, not until the start of the UC claim.

Now there is a thought.  Only claim TC up to the day before pay day and then claim UC from the day after pay day

According to the OP, tax credits claim ends 24/04/24 and wasn't paid until 26/04/24. Can the OP confirm the TC claim end date?

Yamor

The OP hasn't been precise with their dates, but they mention in their second post claiming UC on the 30th.
That would mean a TC period of 25 days.
1970/25×365=28762.

Danien

Yamor said:

The OP hasn't been precise with their dates, but they mention in their second post claiming UC on the 30th.
That would mean a TC period of 25 days.
1970/25×365=28762.

They said in the first post the claim ended 24th, which is why I asked them to confirm the date as yes there is a discrepancy between TC end date and UC start date. Plus if 24th is the end date then there was no payment in the part period in question which should make income '0' according to the regs and UT decision.