Job via recruiter - When to negotiate salary?

Charlotte_Ca

So, all the jobs I had I found them myself so when it was coming to the salary I was able to negotiate at the time of the job offer. I could do that because at the interview they were asking me my salary expectations.

There was once a job I found via a recruiter and they told me the job is for 25K to 27K. I told them I was interested so I had the first interview with the HR of the company and then they had called me for the second interview with the hiring managers. In none of these interviews anyone asked me my salary expectations and I followed the rule that if they don't ask, then I don't ask either.

So, then the recruiter had called me to offer the job and he told me the salary would be 25K which was the lowest of the range. I was a bit dissapointed because I had years of experience and I could easily go for 27K. I thought the company would offer me the highest salary.

I told the recruiter if we can negotiate the salary and he was like but this is within the range and now it will look bad on me if I go back to them and say that you don't accept the salary etc. He really wanted me to just accept and avoid negotiating. Anyway, at that time I needed the job so I accepted. 

------------------------------------------------------

Now, I'm sort of in the same position. Again I'm on the final stages of the interview process. This job is via a recruiter and they told me the salary is 25K to 30K. I like the job and if they were to give it to me I would accept it, but after doing some calculations I wouldn't be able to accept anything less than 27K because I would also have to take the train and that's expensive. 

However, in the interview I had with the hiring managers they didn't ask me the salary expectations and I think they will call me for the final interview next week so I want to be prepared. I don't want to end up like the situation last time. 

So, my question is shall I tell the recruiter now that my salary cannot be less than 27K or wait until the final interview and see if the hiring manager is going to ask me for the salary?

DullGreyGuy

Normally the recruiter will have put you forward at a rate which you agree between yourselves before you are put forward. So in the first instance, find out what they have told their client about your salary expectations.

Ultimately it's a negotiation, you are in a stronger position when there is an offer on the table than before the final round interview. How to play it depends on what offer you get and if you are willing to walk away from it. Some will make up fictitious alternative offers and use those for leverage (eg telling the recruiter you prefer this role but someone else has offered you £29k or £30k and if these guys offer £25k that the gap is too big but you may consider it if they can meet you in the middle as its not all about the money). 

Wouldn't personally do anything before the offer other than ask what they put you forward at. 

Charlotte_Ca

DullGreyGuy said:

Normally the recruiter will have put you forward at a rate which you agree between yourselves before you are put forward. So in the first instance, find out what they have told their client about your salary expectations.

Ultimately it's a negotiation, you are in a stronger position when there is an offer on the table than before the final round interview. How to play it depends on what offer you get and if you are willing to walk away from it. Some will make up fictitious alternative offers and use those for leverage (eg telling the recruiter you prefer this role but someone else has offered you £29k or £30k and if these guys offer £25k that the gap is too big but you may consider it if they can meet you in the middle as its not all about the money). 

Wouldn't personally do anything before the offer other than ask what they put you forward at. 

So this time the recruiter put me forward for 25-30K and he told me that this is what they told the client. 

If they give me 25K and I say (in a nice negotiable way of course) that I prefer 27K and they reject it, then I think I would prefer to walk away because honestly with the train costs I won't have any money left. 

I'm just curious though since we can negotiate when there is an offer then why did the recruiter in one of my previous jobs didn't accept any negotiation when I asked and he just said it will look bad on him if he goes back with a higher rate? At that time the rate they put me forward was 25-27K. In the end I had accepted the 25K because I needed the job, but I remember I was feeling very undervalued and cheap labour based on my experience, but the only good thing is that they gave me a good pay raise a couple of months later. However, you never know if you will get a pay rise.

Marcon

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Normally the recruiter will have put you forward at a rate which you agree between yourselves before you are put forward. So in the first instance, find out what they have told their client about your salary expectations.

Ultimately it's a negotiation, you are in a stronger position when there is an offer on the table than before the final round interview. How to play it depends on what offer you get and if you are willing to walk away from it. Some will make up fictitious alternative offers and use those for leverage (eg telling the recruiter you prefer this role but someone else has offered you £29k or £30k and if these guys offer £25k that the gap is too big but you may consider it if they can meet you in the middle as its not all about the money). 

Wouldn't personally do anything before the offer other than ask what they put you forward at. 

So this time the recruiter put me forward for 25-30K and he told me that this is what they told the client. 

If they give me 25K and I say (in a nice negotiable way of course) that I prefer 27K and they reject it, then I think I would prefer to walk away because honestly with the train costs I won't have any money left. 

I'm just curious though since we can negotiate when there is an offer then why did the recruiter in one of my previous jobs didn't accept any negotiation when I asked and he just said it will look bad on him if he goes back with a higher rate? At that time the rate they put me forward was 25-27K. In the end I had accepted the 25K because I needed the job, but I remember I was feeling very undervalued and cheap labour based on my experience, but the only good thing is that they gave me a good pay raise a couple of months later. However, you never know if you will get a pay rise.

Because he was looking for an easy life and you caved in and gave him the chance to have just that.

I think you need to be a little more direct - saying you 'prefer' £27K comes over as rather too gentle. Your train fares are your problem, though, not the employer's - you need to negotiate on the basis of the value and experience you can offer to them, not your domestic issues.

DullGreyGuy

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Normally the recruiter will have put you forward at a rate which you agree between yourselves before you are put forward. So in the first instance, find out what they have told their client about your salary expectations.

Ultimately it's a negotiation, you are in a stronger position when there is an offer on the table than before the final round interview. How to play it depends on what offer you get and if you are willing to walk away from it. Some will make up fictitious alternative offers and use those for leverage (eg telling the recruiter you prefer this role but someone else has offered you £29k or £30k and if these guys offer £25k that the gap is too big but you may consider it if they can meet you in the middle as its not all about the money). 

Wouldn't personally do anything before the offer other than ask what they put you forward at. 

So this time the recruiter put me forward for 25-30K and he told me that this is what they told the client. 

If they give me 25K and I say (in a nice negotiable way of course) that I prefer 27K and they reject it, then I think I would prefer to walk away because honestly with the train costs I won't have any money left. 

I'm just curious though since we can negotiate when there is an offer then why did the recruiter in one of my previous jobs didn't accept any negotiation when I asked and he just said it will look bad on him if he goes back with a higher rate? At that time the rate they put me forward was 25-27K. In the end I had accepted the 25K because I needed the job, but I remember I was feeling very undervalued and cheap labour based on my experience, but the only good thing is that they gave me a good pay raise a couple of months later. However, you never know if you will get a pay rise.

Not helpful for a recruiter to put at a range... if someone says they are willing to do the job for £25,000 to £30,000 what are you going to offer them? The upper bound is particularly stupid as it would imply that if they were to offer you £35,000 then you'd turn down the job. Its much more helpful for everyone for it to have been a single number and sometimes offers do go above that single number and no one ever turns it down simply because its a higher number (putting aside some who know how to work benefits systems too well).

Negotiations are always possible, as a day rate contractor I have a 3 way negotiation as in most cases its £X/day to me and 20% on top to the recruitment firm (the recruiter personally tends to get 1/3 of that). So I can negotiate with the client to increase X which the recruiter likes because then their money goes up too or I can turn to the recruiter and say I want some of their 20%.

The last recruiter did negotiate with you, they simply said no and you caved... it's still technically a negotiation strategy. They may have just been confident you'd accept rather than walk away and hence stuck to their guns. Similarly they may have sold you to the client as being keen and willing to work for the bottom rate... this is arguably where the fictitious other offer helps as everyone can save face and doesn't mean you've gone back on the statement of being willing to work for something and then saying you want more. 

Jude57

Charlotte_Ca said:

So, all the jobs I had I found them myself so when it was coming to the salary I was able to negotiate at the time of the job offer. I could do that because at the interview they were asking me my salary expectations.

There was once a job I found via a recruiter and they told me the job is for 25K to 27K. I told them I was interested so I had the first interview with the HR of the company and then they had called me for the second interview with the hiring managers. In none of these interviews anyone asked me my salary expectations and I followed the rule that if they don't ask, then I don't ask either.

So, then the recruiter had called me to offer the job and he told me the salary would be 25K which was the lowest of the range. I was a bit dissapointed because I had years of experience and I could easily go for 27K. I thought the company would offer me the highest salary.

I told the recruiter if we can negotiate the salary and he was like but this is within the range and now it will look bad on me if I go back to them and say that you don't accept the salary etc. He really wanted me to just accept and avoid negotiating. Anyway, at that time I needed the job so I accepted. 

------------------------------------------------------

Now, I'm sort of in the same position. Again I'm on the final stages of the interview process. This job is via a recruiter and they told me the salary is 25K to 30K. I like the job and if they were to give it to me I would accept it, but after doing some calculations I wouldn't be able to accept anything less than 27K because I would also have to take the train and that's expensive. 

However, in the interview I had with the hiring managers they didn't ask me the salary expectations and I think they will call me for the final interview next week so I want to be prepared. I don't want to end up like the situation last time. 

So, my question is shall I tell the recruiter now that my salary cannot be less than 27K or wait until the final interview and see if the hiring manager is going to ask me for the salary?

Your user name and terminology make me wonder whether you're posting from the USA? If so, I'd just want you to be aware that this is a UK based site and most posters are likely to be UK based. While undoubtedly knowledgeable, responders are likely to be basing their replies on experience of the UK job market and practices. Common practice in employment, recruitment and of course employment law, is very different in the two countries so factor that in when reading the responses.

I could of course be entirely wrong, in which case I apologise for interrupting the thread.

Charlotte_Ca

Jude57 said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

So, all the jobs I had I found them myself so when it was coming to the salary I was able to negotiate at the time of the job offer. I could do that because at the interview they were asking me my salary expectations.

There was once a job I found via a recruiter and they told me the job is for 25K to 27K. I told them I was interested so I had the first interview with the HR of the company and then they had called me for the second interview with the hiring managers. In none of these interviews anyone asked me my salary expectations and I followed the rule that if they don't ask, then I don't ask either.

So, then the recruiter had called me to offer the job and he told me the salary would be 25K which was the lowest of the range. I was a bit dissapointed because I had years of experience and I could easily go for 27K. I thought the company would offer me the highest salary.

I told the recruiter if we can negotiate the salary and he was like but this is within the range and now it will look bad on me if I go back to them and say that you don't accept the salary etc. He really wanted me to just accept and avoid negotiating. Anyway, at that time I needed the job so I accepted. 

------------------------------------------------------

Now, I'm sort of in the same position. Again I'm on the final stages of the interview process. This job is via a recruiter and they told me the salary is 25K to 30K. I like the job and if they were to give it to me I would accept it, but after doing some calculations I wouldn't be able to accept anything less than 27K because I would also have to take the train and that's expensive. 

However, in the interview I had with the hiring managers they didn't ask me the salary expectations and I think they will call me for the final interview next week so I want to be prepared. I don't want to end up like the situation last time. 

So, my question is shall I tell the recruiter now that my salary cannot be less than 27K or wait until the final interview and see if the hiring manager is going to ask me for the salary?

Your user name and terminology make me wonder whether you're posting from the USA? If so, I'd just want you to be aware that this is a UK based site and most posters are likely to be UK based. While undoubtedly knowledgeable, responders are likely to be basing their replies on experience of the UK job market and practices. Common practice in employment, recruitment and of course employment law, is very different in the two countries so factor that in when reading the responses.

I could of course be entirely wrong, in which case I apologise for interrupting the thread.

I'm based in the UK

Charlotte_Ca

DullGreyGuy said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Normally the recruiter will have put you forward at a rate which you agree between yourselves before you are put forward. So in the first instance, find out what they have told their client about your salary expectations.

Ultimately it's a negotiation, you are in a stronger position when there is an offer on the table than before the final round interview. How to play it depends on what offer you get and if you are willing to walk away from it. Some will make up fictitious alternative offers and use those for leverage (eg telling the recruiter you prefer this role but someone else has offered you £29k or £30k and if these guys offer £25k that the gap is too big but you may consider it if they can meet you in the middle as its not all about the money). 

Wouldn't personally do anything before the offer other than ask what they put you forward at. 

So this time the recruiter put me forward for 25-30K and he told me that this is what they told the client. 

If they give me 25K and I say (in a nice negotiable way of course) that I prefer 27K and they reject it, then I think I would prefer to walk away because honestly with the train costs I won't have any money left. 

I'm just curious though since we can negotiate when there is an offer then why did the recruiter in one of my previous jobs didn't accept any negotiation when I asked and he just said it will look bad on him if he goes back with a higher rate? At that time the rate they put me forward was 25-27K. In the end I had accepted the 25K because I needed the job, but I remember I was feeling very undervalued and cheap labour based on my experience, but the only good thing is that they gave me a good pay raise a couple of months later. However, you never know if you will get a pay rise.

Not helpful for a recruiter to put at a range... if someone says they are willing to do the job for £25,000 to £30,000 what are you going to offer them? The upper bound is particularly stupid as it would imply that if they were to offer you £35,000 then you'd turn down the job. Its much more helpful for everyone for it to have been a single number and sometimes offers do go above that single number and no one ever turns it down simply because its a higher number (putting aside some who know how to work benefits systems too well).

Negotiations are always possible, as a day rate contractor I have a 3 way negotiation as in most cases its £X/day to me and 20% on top to the recruitment firm (the recruiter personally tends to get 1/3 of that). So I can negotiate with the client to increase X which the recruiter likes because then their money goes up too or I can turn to the recruiter and say I want some of their 20%.

The last recruiter did negotiate with you, they simply said no and you caved... it's still technically a negotiation strategy. They may have just been confident you'd accept rather than walk away and hence stuck to their guns. Similarly they may have sold you to the client as being keen and willing to work for the bottom rate... this is arguably where the fictitious other offer helps as everyone can save face and doesn't mean you've gone back on the statement of being willing to work for something and then saying you want more. 

When somebody gives me a range I just take that they are at least willing to give the average after some negotiations 

Charlotte_Ca

Marcon said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Normally the recruiter will have put you forward at a rate which you agree between yourselves before you are put forward. So in the first instance, find out what they have told their client about your salary expectations.

Ultimately it's a negotiation, you are in a stronger position when there is an offer on the table than before the final round interview. How to play it depends on what offer you get and if you are willing to walk away from it. Some will make up fictitious alternative offers and use those for leverage (eg telling the recruiter you prefer this role but someone else has offered you £29k or £30k and if these guys offer £25k that the gap is too big but you may consider it if they can meet you in the middle as its not all about the money). 

Wouldn't personally do anything before the offer other than ask what they put you forward at. 

So this time the recruiter put me forward for 25-30K and he told me that this is what they told the client. 

If they give me 25K and I say (in a nice negotiable way of course) that I prefer 27K and they reject it, then I think I would prefer to walk away because honestly with the train costs I won't have any money left. 

I'm just curious though since we can negotiate when there is an offer then why did the recruiter in one of my previous jobs didn't accept any negotiation when I asked and he just said it will look bad on him if he goes back with a higher rate? At that time the rate they put me forward was 25-27K. In the end I had accepted the 25K because I needed the job, but I remember I was feeling very undervalued and cheap labour based on my experience, but the only good thing is that they gave me a good pay raise a couple of months later. However, you never know if you will get a pay rise.

Because he was looking for an easy life and you caved in and gave him the chance to have just that.

I think you need to be a little more direct - saying you 'prefer' £27K comes over as rather too gentle. Your train fares are your problem, though, not the employer's - you need to negotiate on the basis of the value and experience you can offer to them, not your domestic issues.

Yes, I guess it makes sense. Maybe I should keep the train fares out of the negotiations

El_Torro

If the employer knows that you are looking at between £25k and £30k then they should be willing to pay up to £30k, especially if that is how the job is being advertised. So I don't see any issue with you waiting for them to make an offer on salary, then if it's less than £27k you go back and say that you want at least £27k. I wouldn't make the first offer though, after all if they offer you £28k I guess you'll be happy with that.

If you knowingly go into the interview process for a £25k - £30k role and when they make you the offer you say you won't accept less than £32k then I would say that is bad practice. Many companies (especially big ones) have a set budget for salaries and going above that budget is very complicated. It would be unlikely to be accepted, unless you somehow wow them so much at the interview that they couldn't possibly pass up on recruiting you (unlikely to ever happen). 


So yeah, in short, I see no problem in you sticking to a minimum of £27k, you're not misleading anyone or asking for something unreasonable.

Royoftherovers2024

I'd wait for a firm offer and only then say you'd accept at the higher, stick to your guns and be prepared to walk away if they don't move on salary.

You can't trust recruitment agencies though, as they will offer you low to an employer sometimes. 

I've always known my worth and walked away if I didn't get what I wanted, it's a lot harder to negotiate a salary increase Ince you are in the door.