Job via recruiter - When to negotiate salary?

Charlotte_Ca

DullGreyGuy said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

Royoftherovers2024 said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

If let's say they offer the job for £25K and I go back to negotiate. Shall I say I will accept the job for £27K  or say I would accept it at the range of £27K-£28K.

I mean give a set amount or a range?

Give a number, ranges are pointless as you aren't going to turn down £29 are you?

True! I wouldn't say no to a higher salary than expected.

However I have to say that after having now the final interview I felt that I should increase the minimum to £28 because they sort of require you to keep an eye on the emails after work and on the weekends in case any of the orders outside of working hours need attention. Even though they assured me that not always there is something and you do have a work life balance.

The recruiter had called me later to check how it went and I said good blah blah I feel this is a job I would enjoy doing and the company and people are nice. Which is true I felt very comfortable being there and during the interview. No stress at all.

Then I cannot remember if he asked me if I would accept it if it was offered to me or if I told him during my excitement that I would accept it, but I said I would accept. And then I added that of course after getting the contract and based on what other benefits they offer etc. Then he asked me what salary are you looking for. I said £27-£28K because even though £27 is my minimum, it was only a couple of hours ago before his call that I was thinking I should go for £28K.

But then I was thinking, first of all was I right to say that I would accept without them offering the job first and then I was like should I have just said £28K instead of giving a range?

I feel that when you don't deal with such negotiations often you don't know how to respond properly. Because on the one hand I'm thinking I don't want to seem very pricey as this is not a job I've done before and on the other hand I'm thinking, but even if I go higher still it's within their range and they have the money. It's not like they will become poor. 

I don't know... too many thoughts....

I'd walk away from the job.

No way for £28k I'd be checking emails outside of contracted work hours.

Value yourself more, 28k is below national average wage but they expect you to do more than average tasks by being effectively available evenings and weekends. 

How much would you accept for a job that has this requirement? 

Depends on the rest of the details of the job, where you are in your career, how often you really have to deal with out of hours matters. 

Sometimes we accept bad pay for experience which we know will get us more in the future. I was grossly underpaid, for reasons, when I started my career, one of the persons that worked for me was paid 50% more than me yet was complaining about their salary. I got exceptional experience from that work though and enabled me to massively increase my salary afterwards. Now I'm a day rate contractor so hard to directly compare to an employee salary but can demand the top tier monies for what I do and often end up in bidding wars for my time.

That said, still have someone working for me on 50% more but they are a qualified actuary so more a function of leading diverse teams from basic data inputters to senior lawyers and actuaries than being underpaid


Some will want to be paid a reasonable rate today as there are no guarantees for tomorrow whereas others will be more willing to take the punt and hope it leads to better things.

They told me you don't really have to deal with out of hours. It's more like if it happens. You just keep an eye really. From what I understood maybe it's going to happen once in a month to deal with something over the weekend and if that happens then you will get an extra day off. Even if it was a couple of hours.

To me it seemed fine, because as you are saying it also depends what you are going to gain and this is going to be a great experience. 

No matter what I wouldn't walk away from this job if they were to offer it to me.

The only thing that swirls in my mind is that I should have said the recruiter £28K minimum. If I call him tomorrow and say this if he hasn't spoken to the managers yet, would it be bad?

DullGreyGuy

Its not ideal to change your mind but not bad either, just let the agent know at the earliest opportunity saying you've slept on it and the more you think about it you feel £28k would be the appropriate salary based on the demands of the role as discussed in the interview. 

Charlotte_Ca

DullGreyGuy said:

Its not ideal to change your mind but not bad either, just let the agent know at the earliest opportunity saying you've slept on it and the more you think about it you feel £28k would be the appropriate salary based on the demands of the role as discussed in the interview. 

So, I called the recruiter and mentioned this today, but he told me I was not succesful for the role. He said initially they sent me for £25K. Anyways it's fine. It's all a lesson at the end of the day. I think it must have been the salary the reason they didn't accept me. Because if they pay the other employees £25K and they had to pay me £28K and the employees were to find out that I get paid more than them, then that could create an issue and the company might have to increase their salaries as well. 

Now I know that next time I should be doing my calculations from the beginning and be sure to give an exact amount of the minimum I could accept to avoid having such situations in the future. 

Charlotte_Ca

Elliott.T123 said:

As a recruiter with 15 years experience if anyone working for me put candidates forward at a range or was discussing ranges with potential hires they would be getting retrained that day!

A good recruiter will discuss exact figures with you, they will reconfirm those figures after every interview (things change, did the hiring manager tell you that you have to be in the office an extra day, suddenly you want an extra £2,000 for the travel etc). They will communicate clearly with the company that any offer needs to be X level.

95% of the time I will refuse to put an offer to a candidate if the company tries to low ball and instead will do the negotiation before the candidate even knows. (I do this with companies I know are not going to pull an offer, I would never do it if it was a one and done type offer). I expect to be in a situation where when I receive an offer it is for a figure that has been discussed 3-4 times at least, everyone is on the same page and when I present it there is no need to think its a simple yes immediately.

I would probably advise that if you are 100% sure you cant accept less than £27k tell the recruiter as soon as possible. If you ever have a similar situation in the future then I would have this conversation at the time. So if the recruiter says the range for this role is £25-30k. My response would be "that's great they can match my expectations, for me to move I would need to be at least 27k"

As a recruiter how would you approach the fact that a candidate can have different salary requirements based on the location of the company?

For example, if I get a job closer to my place where I can only take the bus I could accept a salary of £25K, but if they send me further away were I have to take the train or maybe even bus + train then i have to go higher on £28K.

I've been advised before in here that I shouldn't bring this up to an employer on salary negotiations (fair enough makes sense), but that is different I guess if I had to discuss this with a recruiter in my opinion. The reason is that when I apply myself to a specific company I know in advance where they are, I can check the public transport and figure out what salary I could accept. 

However, if I'm collaborating with a recruiter then he has access to many different companies and I don't know in advance where the next one is going to be. So, if I tell him minimum £28K but he has another job closer to my place with less salary then automatically he wouldn't consider me for this role, but in reality I would be interested.

So, my question is with the recruiter shall I be honest and say look for companies closer to me I can accept £25K, but if they are further away and have to take the train then I can only accept minimum £28K.

DullGreyGuy

Without meaning any disrespect to Elliott... anyone with "agent" in their traditional job title really just works for themselves be that Recruitement Agents, Estate Agents etc etc. Either side may think they represent them but in reality loyalties are not fixed... you'd argue both get a fee based on sale price/salary so the higher is better for them but they are better off doing 2 deals at a reasonable rate then spending all the time/focus on trying to get a great price for 1. 

Its understandable to have different rates for different jobs be that because of distance, hours, stress levels etc. If someone wants me on a 18 month policy admin system replacement I'd be charging them less per day than if they want me to do a 6 month engagement on buying another company because the later is going to be much more intense work, more likely travel etc. 

When talking to an agent about what you are looking for in general rather than a specific job it's ok then to give a range of salaries and what drives it. When you switch to talking about an actual opportunity then you'll know its location etc and so then you switch to a single value but that may change over the process as you learn more about the role etc.

Elliott.T123

Charlotte_Ca said:

Elliott.T123 said:

As a recruiter with 15 years experience if anyone working for me put candidates forward at a range or was discussing ranges with potential hires they would be getting retrained that day!

A good recruiter will discuss exact figures with you, they will reconfirm those figures after every interview (things change, did the hiring manager tell you that you have to be in the office an extra day, suddenly you want an extra £2,000 for the travel etc). They will communicate clearly with the company that any offer needs to be X level.

95% of the time I will refuse to put an offer to a candidate if the company tries to low ball and instead will do the negotiation before the candidate even knows. (I do this with companies I know are not going to pull an offer, I would never do it if it was a one and done type offer). I expect to be in a situation where when I receive an offer it is for a figure that has been discussed 3-4 times at least, everyone is on the same page and when I present it there is no need to think its a simple yes immediately.

I would probably advise that if you are 100% sure you cant accept less than £27k tell the recruiter as soon as possible. If you ever have a similar situation in the future then I would have this conversation at the time. So if the recruiter says the range for this role is £25-30k. My response would be "that's great they can match my expectations, for me to move I would need to be at least 27k"

As a recruiter how would you approach the fact that a candidate can have different salary requirements based on the location of the company?

For example, if I get a job closer to my place where I can only take the bus I could accept a salary of £25K, but if they send me further away were I have to take the train or maybe even bus + train then i have to go higher on £28K.

I've been advised before in here that I shouldn't bring this up to an employer on salary negotiations (fair enough makes sense), but that is different I guess if I had to discuss this with a recruiter in my opinion. The reason is that when I apply myself to a specific company I know in advance where they are, I can check the public transport and figure out what salary I could accept. 

However, if I'm collaborating with a recruiter then he has access to many different companies and I don't know in advance where the next one is going to be. So, if I tell him minimum £28K but he has another job closer to my place with less salary then automatically he wouldn't consider me for this role, but in reality I would be interested.

So, my question is with the recruiter shall I be honest and say look for companies closer to me I can accept £25K, but if they are further away and have to take the train then I can only accept minimum £28K.

Yes I would absolutely recommend you do that.

The candidates I work with are often looking for very different salaries depending on multiple different factors.

I have an individual I am working with currently who would go into London 5 days a week for £100k, for £90k he will do 2-3 days a week and a fully remote role he will do £75k. If the role is for a start-up he will be more flexible if it is for a corporate he wants more. 

As cut throat as it sounds a recruiter is there to make money, if we can help people at the same time then that's a huge and fantastic bonus, but we aren't a charity, we are working to put food on the table. The more information we have on you the more we can make sure we are sharing relevant jobs with you.

If you don't tell the recruiter then they may not bother sharing jobs paying under £27k with you in future as they think you are only interested in £27k plus. You might miss that perfect role on your doorstep.

Elliott.T123

DullGreyGuy said:

Without meaning any disrespect to Elliott... anyone with "agent" in their traditional job title really just works for themselves be that Recruitement Agents, Estate Agents etc etc. Either side may think they represent them but in reality loyalties are not fixed... you'd argue both get a fee based on sale price/salary so the higher is better for them but they are better off doing 2 deals at a reasonable rate then spending all the time/focus on trying to get a great price for 1. 

Its understandable to have different rates for different jobs be that because of distance, hours, stress levels etc. If someone wants me on a 18 month policy admin system replacement I'd be charging them less per day than if they want me to do a 6 month engagement on buying another company because the later is going to be much more intense work, more likely travel etc. 

When talking to an agent about what you are looking for in general rather than a specific job it's ok then to give a range of salaries and what drives it. When you switch to talking about an actual opportunity then you'll know its location etc and so then you switch to a single value but that may change over the process as you learn more about the role etc.

No disrespect taken at all, I hadn't read your reply when I posted above and you will see I pretty much said the same thing, recruiters are first and foremost looking to make money, if we can help people at the same time that's a bonus and a fulfilling part of the job but my priority every morning is making sure I have paid the mortgage!

But yes in short exactly what Dull said, range for general figure for an exact role.
But as mentioned in an earlier post, it is absolutely fine for that figure to change during the process as you find out more about the role and company (within reason, obviously if you go from wanting £25k to £50k then you can assume its not going to work!) 

Royoftherovers2024

Charlotte_Ca said:

Royoftherovers2024 said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

If let's say they offer the job for £25K and I go back to negotiate. Shall I say I will accept the job for £27K  or say I would accept it at the range of £27K-£28K.

I mean give a set amount or a range?

Give a number, ranges are pointless as you aren't going to turn down £29 are you?

True! I wouldn't say no to a higher salary than expected.

However I have to say that after having now the final interview I felt that I should increase the minimum to £28 because they sort of require you to keep an eye on the emails after work and on the weekends in case any of the orders outside of working hours need attention. Even though they assured me that not always there is something and you do have a work life balance.

The recruiter had called me later to check how it went and I said good blah blah I feel this is a job I would enjoy doing and the company and people are nice. Which is true I felt very comfortable being there and during the interview. No stress at all.

Then I cannot remember if he asked me if I would accept it if it was offered to me or if I told him during my excitement that I would accept it, but I said I would accept. And then I added that of course after getting the contract and based on what other benefits they offer etc. Then he asked me what salary are you looking for. I said £27-£28K because even though £27 is my minimum, it was only a couple of hours ago before his call that I was thinking I should go for £28K.

But then I was thinking, first of all was I right to say that I would accept without them offering the job first and then I was like should I have just said £28K instead of giving a range?

I feel that when you don't deal with such negotiations often you don't know how to respond properly. Because on the one hand I'm thinking I don't want to seem very pricey as this is not a job I've done before and on the other hand I'm thinking, but even if I go higher still it's within their range and they have the money. It's not like they will become poor. 

I don't know... too many thoughts....

I'd walk away from the job.

No way for £28k I'd be checking emails outside of contracted work hours.

Value yourself more, 28k is below national average wage but they expect you to do more than average tasks by being effectively available evenings and weekends. 

How much would you accept for a job that has this requirement? 

They couldn't pay me enough. No way would I be tied to emails outside of work contracted hours.

DullGreyGuy

Royoftherovers2024 said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

Royoftherovers2024 said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Charlotte_Ca said:

If let's say they offer the job for £25K and I go back to negotiate. Shall I say I will accept the job for £27K  or say I would accept it at the range of £27K-£28K.

I mean give a set amount or a range?

Give a number, ranges are pointless as you aren't going to turn down £29 are you?

True! I wouldn't say no to a higher salary than expected.

However I have to say that after having now the final interview I felt that I should increase the minimum to £28 because they sort of require you to keep an eye on the emails after work and on the weekends in case any of the orders outside of working hours need attention. Even though they assured me that not always there is something and you do have a work life balance.

The recruiter had called me later to check how it went and I said good blah blah I feel this is a job I would enjoy doing and the company and people are nice. Which is true I felt very comfortable being there and during the interview. No stress at all.

Then I cannot remember if he asked me if I would accept it if it was offered to me or if I told him during my excitement that I would accept it, but I said I would accept. And then I added that of course after getting the contract and based on what other benefits they offer etc. Then he asked me what salary are you looking for. I said £27-£28K because even though £27 is my minimum, it was only a couple of hours ago before his call that I was thinking I should go for £28K.

But then I was thinking, first of all was I right to say that I would accept without them offering the job first and then I was like should I have just said £28K instead of giving a range?

I feel that when you don't deal with such negotiations often you don't know how to respond properly. Because on the one hand I'm thinking I don't want to seem very pricey as this is not a job I've done before and on the other hand I'm thinking, but even if I go higher still it's within their range and they have the money. It's not like they will become poor. 

I don't know... too many thoughts....

I'd walk away from the job.

No way for £28k I'd be checking emails outside of contracted work hours.

Value yourself more, 28k is below national average wage but they expect you to do more than average tasks by being effectively available evenings and weekends. 

How much would you accept for a job that has this requirement? 

They couldn't pay me enough. No way would I be tied to emails outside of work contracted hours.

So you'd turn down the job for £10m rather than take it, work 6 months and then quit with your £5m pay-packet? 

Most people have a price, the rest is just a negotiation.