Issue with finding leak in my flat

Applebob204

Some background information: Sorry for the long post

I am in a first floor flat, above a ground floor flat. There are a further 2 flats above me. I have lived in my flat now for almost 4 years, I own the flat and it was built in 2008. 

Back in September I was contacted by my management company explaining that the flat below(which is rented by the occupants) had noticed water on their bathroom ceiling and if I would identify the issue and resolve it. Later that day my dad came over and we noticed a small leak every time the toilet was flushed (Its hidden behind some coverings) about the amount of a shot glass. Basically the pipe that delivers the water from the basen wasn't fully sealed on the toilet and letting the water out every time it was flushed. It was refitted and sealed the same day and is still functioning correctly. I told the management company what happened and as far as I was concerned that was the end of the matter. 

Around December 20th I was contacted by the management company again to say that the issue isn't resolved and that there was serious water damage to the flat below. I was told that I had 10 working days to find a certified plumber and to generate a report to say the issue was fixed or that there is no issue. Queue me ringing around 20 plumbers to find someone who could come that close to christmas none were available and I had to pay £250 for an emergency plumber. The guy comes from the company, has a look under the shower, behind the toilet, in the kitchen, in the immersion cupboard and basically all the places water may be leaking inside the flat. Nothing was found and we don't know what the issue is. He speculated that it could be issue with the flat above possibly so that needs to be explored as it could be running down the channel where all the pipes are and collecting at the bottom flat (The flat above also had a plumber out that didnt find anything. We also go and look downstairs at the issue in the flat and it's horrendous down there. It's spread into multiple rooms and in the airing cupboard the wall is damp, mold in the bathroom and it's also showing in the kitchen (All those rooms are basically in the same place)

The management company have repeatedly said that it is the responsibility of each

individual owner to ensure their property is in good repair and water isn’t escaping causing damages and nuisance to other properties. Now this is fine ofcourse, but my issue is I cant see the leak anywhere / I have already had a plumber out. 

The loss adjusters paid a visit and determined that it wasn't obvious to him where the leak was and that a trace and access should take place. He said that the insurance company should be able to provide this.

From this the management company wants to organise a trace and access / repairs and to get the insurance company involved (Buildings insurance). It seems the insurance company did not want to organise this themselves (We do have trace and access in the buildings insurance) Presumably because if it's deemed that it is coming from a specific property they don't want to pay for it and if it isn't it can be claimed later?

Now the management company have seeked this leak detection to take place at the cost of 1250 and that is due to take place in a few weeks.

I think the management company overall have been pretty slow with the entire issue. This started back in September and it's now May.

I don't want to pay for anything like a leak detection or start ripping down walls / pulling up the floor if it's not my issue and potentially someone above. Also it's weird because I'm not even sure what insurance I could have for this? Like I have contents insurance and then there's the building insurance. What about building issues such as pipes that are in my property but are extremely difficult to get to like behind a wall / under the floor, what insurance should I have had for this? My issue is it probably is coming from somewhere in my flat but I don't want to be stung by an absolutely huge bill. I know that the damage to flat below will be paid for as I have not been negligent. Its just been hugely stressful and I am not even sure I would have the money to pay for any large repairs if needed.

Would love some advice and will provide details if needed. Many thanks

MikeJXE

No one on here will have a clue but have you tried switching off your water supply and see how it goes ? 

Are the water supplies to the flats above running through your flat ?

subjecttocontract

I've owned a number of rental flats for over 20 years. During that time there have been a few leaks which always turned out to be plumbing for the washing machine.

Presumably someone has already checked:
* the isolator taps for the water supply to the machine and
* the waste connection and
* checked for leaks after a wash cycle.

* water supply connections to bath, basins, kitchen sinks.
* Waste connection to the above.

* Cold water tank ball valve shut off and
* Wether the tank overflow is adequately sealed to the tank.
* Hot water tank connections and overheat mechanism.

* Toilet water supply connections and any overflow pipe connections.

* Incoming main water supply tap/connections.

Assuming you have no other plumbed equipment it's difficult to see how you can be held responsible if all the above is ok.

What room do to have that is directly above the bathroom of the flat below ?

Applebob204

Have checked behin

subjecttocontract said:

I've owned a number of rental flats for over 20 years. During that time there have been a few leaks which always turned out to be plumbing for the washing machine.

Presumably someone has already checked:
* the isolator taps for the water supply to the machine and
* the waste connection and
* checked for leaks after a wash cycle.

* water supply connections to bath, basins, kitchen sinks.
* Waste connection to the above.

* Cold water tank ball valve shut off and
* Wether the tank overflow is adequately sealed to the tank.
* Hot water tank connections and overheat mechanism.

* Toilet water supply connections and any overflow pipe connections.

* Incoming main water supply tap/connections.

Assuming you have no other plumbed equipment it's difficult to see how you can be held responsible if all the above is ok.

What room do to have that is directly above the bathroom of the flat below ?

Have checked behind the dishwasher and washing machine and both are dry. Yes the main water supply tap has also been checked. Waste has been checked (I actually have water leak detectors in the immersion clost, under the sink and in the bathroom behind the sink and they have not detected any wate) Everthing as far as I am aware has been checked. I will make a video in the next 20 mins to show you

Directly below my bathroom is theirs, we have the same flat layout. The video will show this a little bit

Applebob204

MikeJXE said:

No one on here will have a clue but have you tried switching off your water supply and see how it goes ? 

Are the water supplies to the flats above running through your flat ?

Problem is I need the water... Its not obvious below what is causing it. Its not like its pouring through, its been around 8 months.

pramsay13

I had a top floor flat and the flat below had water pouring in at certain times. They were getting irate saying we had to sort it, but we had a few plumbers that couldn't find anything . 
Eventually we discovered that it only happened during heavy rainfall so it was backing up from gutters or drainpipes but then travelling down pipes or voids and ending up coming through the ceiling of the middle flat under our bathroom.
Getting the drains cleared out properly solved the issue.  

Applebob204

watch?v=AsAFSoCdzmg  here is the video, anyone else feel free to watch. you have to put youtube . com / and then  that

MikeJXE

I watched your video and it's obvious to me if you have a leak it is behind the walls/in the floor

Is there any chance of talking photos of the ceilings/walls in the flat below ? 

subjecttocontract

* Cracked bath or shower tray ?
* Has the bath side panel(s) been removed and the bath & pipes been checked for leaks ?....including the overflow ?
* Is there an adequate silicon seal between bath/ shower & walls ?
* It might well be that the leak will be more easily identified once the plaster board ceiling is removed from the flat below.

Applebob204

MikeJXE said:

I watched your video and it's obvious to me if you have a leak it is behind the walls/in the floor

Is there any chance of talking photos of the ceilings/walls in the flat below ? 

Here are some from back in Decemeber, its a lot worse now... which is saying something

Applebob204

subjecttocontract said:

* Cracked bath or shower tray ?
* Has the bath side panel(s) been removed and the bath & pipes been checked for leaks ?....including the overflow ?
* Is there an adequate silicon seal between bath/ shower & walls ?
* It might well be that the leak will be more easily identified once the plaster board ceiling is removed from the flat below.

Yes done that, you can see everything through this video - watch?v=AsAFSoCdzmg  here is the video, you have to put youtube . com / and then watch part (I cant post links because am a new user)

They wont remove the plaster board / do any repair work until the leak has been found.