Parking fine because it took me more than 5 minutes to pay - Can I get out of this?

LDast

You can't go through POPLA because the PPC is not a BPA AOS member. The scammers are an IPC AOS member, hence you can only go through the IAS appeal after you have gone though the PPCs own appeal process first.

The IAS are not as "independent" as their name suggests. With POPLA, the success rate at appeal is somewhere around 30-40% I believe. With the IAS, I don't think it reaches 4%. Go figure!

muffingg

Umkomaas said:

muffingg said:

Coupon-mad said:

I think because of the fact the NTK says the contravention was at 9.30am the next day (which makes no sense) an appeal to the IAS would be worth the laugh, but only if it is the standard (free) IAS that is still available.

Sorry I completely missed your comment. So, should I go through the appeals process first or directly through IAS? Also, the FAQs mentioned that if it's an IPC member, then IAS has next to no chance.

It also mentions
"DON'T TRY IAS & PLEASE DON'T POST ASKING FOR YOUR 'NEXT STEP'. NONE, TILL COURT."

So I'm confused on what to do here. Is this the correct process of what to do:
1. Appeal using the link on the PCN
2. Once that's rejected, wait for a court date and don't try IAS
3. Go to court with my evidence

Is this correct?

In your case because of the confusion over the 09:30 time issue, do try the IAS to see what they come up with (whatever they say, you still don't pay this). But first you must appeal to Excel first via the process described in their Notice to Keeper. 

'Court' is some way away, if ever. Forget that for the time being. Excel will dictate whether court comes into play, you defend if that time comes. 

muffingg said:

Gr1pr said:

No calling anyone, everything in writing 

Do what coupon mad advised and follow the rubbish appeal process, including the useless IAS appeal too. ( No Popla on this one. )

You are probably just going through the motions so expect rejections , then you are in it for the long haul 

Couple of questions:
1. Why no POPLA on this?
2. I'm struggling to make snese of your last sentence. Are you saying I'm just following the procedure but have next to 0 chance of getting it overturned?

1. POPLA is the second appeal stage for BPA AOS members. Excel isn't one of those, rather an IPC AOS member, for which the IAS provides the second appeal stage. 

2. In a nutshell yes. But by not capitulating and taking this as far as it will go following forum advice, you'll likely beat the scam, and there'll be no fingers in your pocket extracting you hard-earned, tax paid, honest income!

Thank you for clarifying and answering all my questions. Apologies for not understanding this before, but this has cleared it up nicely.

I will start working on my appeal today and post it here for advice before sending it off.

muffingg

I don't know what the experience here is with justanswer.co.uk, but I've just spoken to a barrister and their argument is that 10 minutes is quite a long time and I should be able to do the following steps within 5min:

• Park up the car
• Go to the payment machine
• Find out it doesn't take notes or card and only accepts an app payment
• Download the app
• Register on it with all my personal details
• Enter my card details (which were rejected)
• Enter another card's details (which were rejected again)
• Enter a 3rd card's details which were finally accepted

They're saying the only reasonable argument I have is that the network wasn't working well, but then I should've still had enough time to move to another area and download the app.

This is starting to make me thing whether it's worth doing all the hassle. As much as I don't want them to scam me, their sign board clearly reads I need to pay within 5 minutes of entering the car park and if a qualified barrister is saying I would likely lose the case, what should I do here?

This is what they wrote:

In all honesty, I don't think a court would accept it took 10 mins to do this.

I suppose it depends upon whether there is an advertised grace period.

If you are relying on the one implied by law then you need to show the period was required.

Some of the steps you are describing are very simple and quick and required in every car park in the country.

The only real challenge is whether the internet was adequate for downloading and 10 mins is actually quite a long time to do that.

I know that entering details in these machines feels like it takes forever but it usually doesn't.

10 mins sounds a short period of time but if you actually timed it , it would feel quite long.

And when you are having to justify every minute, thats important.

Trainerman

Sheer experience of yourself and others says that yon barrister is talking through his hat ! In fact, it seems to be an oft repeated scam that making it difficult to pay and then issuing PCNs is a very lucrative pursuit.

Don't get the collywobbles . THAT is what they want to happen.

Follow forum advice, breathe and relax.

Gr1pr

As above , just follow the advice on here, only, otherwise you will just confuse yourself, now you are here, trust those of us who are replying to you 

muffingg

Thanks @Trainerman and @Gr1pr. I do trust you guys and really wanna do everything to take these scammers down. But at the end of the day they're a big corporation and I'm just an individual. Never having been involved in a situation like this definitely does make me a little nervous. I just don't wanna end up in a situation where I'll think "I should've just paid the £60 and avoided paying around £400 or more"

Gr1pr

A loss in court for a single PCN is around £200, not £400

Ideally the trick for us individuals is to not get one in the first place,  especially by not using private car parks where the IPC logo is seen. People like coupon mad and others are trying to get change via the DLUHC part of government, which should happen later this year, but we have been promised that change for over 5 years, so we live in hope that the DLUHC implement the changes ASAP 

Meanwhile we all continue to give free targeted assistance to victims like you, so stick with us for free excellent advice 

Coupon-mad

muffingg said:

Thanks @Trainerman and @Gr1pr. I do trust you guys and really wanna do everything to take these scammers down. But at the end of the day they're a big corporation and I'm just an individual. Never having been involved in a situation like this definitely does make me a little nervous. I just don't wanna end up in a situation where I'll think "I should've just paid the £60 and avoided paying around £400 or more"

Where did you get £400 from?! That's not possible. 

JustAnswer is terrible.  I wish you hadn't!  They have no clue re private parking.  

We advised you to do the two stage appeal process and what to focus on.

muffingg

OK, thank you. I'm gonna go ahead with the appeals process. The £400 came from justanswer telling me they could add £70 for debt collector fees in addition to the actual charge (£100) and up to £220 for small claims court fees, so £100 + £70 + £220 is what I calculated based on that.

That was, of course, before anyone told me justanswer is rubbish

Momanns

Please don't pay. This is what the scammers rely on. You have paid for the parking, everytime people give in and pay their nonsense invoices - the scam continues. You wouldn't pay a crook who knocks on the door asking for £100.

People on here will help you through the process. You will win.