Parking fine because it took me more than 5 minutes to pay - Can I get out of this?

LDast

porridgestation said:

You won’t be paying anything. You’ll be winning at appeal or POPLA.

First sentence correct. Second sentence wrong. Excel are in the IPC, so nothing whatsoever to do with POPLA. You probably mean the IAS... that useless kangaroo court.

muffingg said:
My only concern is that their counter-argument is probably going to be: "You were supposed to pay within the first 5 minutes after entering, which you didn't do, so you need to pay a fine".

Do any signs at the location mention that payment must be made within 5 minutes? Whether they do or don't, you paid. Any attempt to penalise you for taking more than 5 minutes is not allowed. The are not an authority that can issue a penalty. They are bunch of ex-clamper thugs masquerading as an unregulated private parking company.

Oh, and it is not a "fine" either. Please stop calling it that. It is a speculative "invoice" for an alleged breach of contract from a bunch of scammers.

porridgestation

LDast said:

porridgestation said:

You won’t be paying anything. You’ll be winning at appeal or POPLA.

First sentence correct. Second sentence wrong. Excel are in the IPC, so nothing whatsoever to do with POPLA. You probably mean the IAS... that useless kangaroo court.

muffingg said:
My only concern is that their counter-argument is probably going to be: "You were supposed to pay within the first 5 minutes after entering, which you didn't do, so you need to pay a fine".

Do any signs at the location mention that payment must be made within 5 minutes? Whether they do or don't, you paid. Any attempt to penalise you for taking more than 5 minutes is not allowed. The are not an authority that can issue a penalty. They are bunch of ex-clamper thugs masquerading as an unregulated private parking company.

Oh, and it is not a "fine" either. Please stop calling it that. It is a speculative "invoice" for an alleged breach of contract from a bunch of scammers.

Ah yes, just noticed the infamous IPC badge of shame at the bottom. No POPLA for this one, just a few mates of Excel running the IAS, which rejects every appeal.

Coupon-mad

I think because of the fact the NTK says the contravention was at 9.30am the next day (which makes no sense) an appeal to the IAS would be worth the laugh, but only if it is the standard (free) IAS that is still available.

muffingg

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Just so I'm completely sure on what to do, what exactly should be my next step on this?
Go through the appeals process mentioned on this or should I just call them up and find out if there was a mistake here?
Should I tell them I was the driver since in this case I personally feel that it wouldn't make a difference or should I still keep that ambiguous?

Thanks in advance.

Mr.Generous

Muffinngg, I had exactly the same issue at a council run car park in Bakewell (I think) - no card payments because no phone signal - machines only took cash. But you could pay by app. Which of course I couldn't becuae no phone signal to download the app or complete the transaction.

These people are idiots!!

It took at least 10 minutes, and just like you it rejected cards as payment method for both myself and wife. We were both trying to pay holding our phones up to get a signal etc.

I was expecting an Invoice but never got one. They must be well aware of the issue at locations like this.

In your position I wouldn't pay - if you lose the appeal go to court and you will win. Unfair terms of contract would apply if they impose a strict time limit to pay in thoise circumstance!!

muffingg

Mr.Generous said:

Muffinngg, I had exactly the same issue at a council run car park in Bakewell (I think) - no card payments because no phone signal - machines only took cash. But you could pay by app. Which of course I couldn't becuae no phone signal to download the app or complete the transaction.

These people are idiots!!

It took at least 10 minutes, and just like you it rejected cards as payment method for both myself and wife. We were both trying to pay holding our phones up to get a signal etc.

I was expecting an Invoice but never got one. They must be well aware of the issue at locations like this.

In your position I wouldn't pay - if you lose the appeal go to court and you will win. Unfair terms of contract would apply if they impose a strict time limit to pay in thoise circumstance!!

Hi Mr.Generous, thanks for your comment and sharing your experience. Good to know I'm not the only one and that this isn't the only parking place that does this.

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "I wouldn't pay"? Do you mean appeal it or just ignore this PCN and not do anything?

Gr1pr

No calling anyone, everything in writing 

Do what coupon mad advised and follow the rubbish appeal process, including the useless IAS appeal too. ( No Popla on this one. )

You are probably just going through the motions so expect rejections , then you are in it for the long haul 

muffingg

Coupon-mad said:

I think because of the fact the NTK says the contravention was at 9.30am the next day (which makes no sense) an appeal to the IAS would be worth the laugh, but only if it is the standard (free) IAS that is still available.

Sorry I completely missed your comment. So, should I go through the appeals process first or directly through IAS? Also, the FAQs mentioned that if it's an IPC member, then IAS has next to no chance.

It also mentions
"DON'T TRY IAS & PLEASE DON'T POST ASKING FOR YOUR 'NEXT STEP'. NONE, TILL COURT."

So I'm confused on what to do here. Is this the correct process of what to do:
1. Appeal using the link on the PCN
2. Once that's rejected, wait for a court date and don't try IAS
3. Go to court with my evidence

Is this correct?

muffingg

Gr1pr said:

No calling anyone, everything in writing 

Do what coupon mad advised and follow the rubbish appeal process, including the useless IAS appeal too. ( No Popla on this one. )

You are probably just going through the motions so expect rejections , then you are in it for the long haul 

Couple of questions:
1. Why no POPLA on this?
2. I'm struggling to make snese of your last sentence. Are you saying I'm just following the procedure but have next to 0 chance of getting it overturned?

Umkomaas

muffingg said:

Coupon-mad said:

I think because of the fact the NTK says the contravention was at 9.30am the next day (which makes no sense) an appeal to the IAS would be worth the laugh, but only if it is the standard (free) IAS that is still available.

Sorry I completely missed your comment. So, should I go through the appeals process first or directly through IAS? Also, the FAQs mentioned that if it's an IPC member, then IAS has next to no chance.

It also mentions
"DON'T TRY IAS & PLEASE DON'T POST ASKING FOR YOUR 'NEXT STEP'. NONE, TILL COURT."

So I'm confused on what to do here. Is this the correct process of what to do:
1. Appeal using the link on the PCN
2. Once that's rejected, wait for a court date and don't try IAS
3. Go to court with my evidence

Is this correct?

In your case because of the confusion over the 09:30 time issue, do try the IAS to see what they come up with (whatever they say, you still don't pay this). But first you must appeal to Excel first via the process described in their Notice to Keeper. 

'Court' is some way away, if ever. Forget that for the time being. Excel will dictate whether court comes into play, you defend if that time comes. 

muffingg said:

Gr1pr said:

No calling anyone, everything in writing 

Do what coupon mad advised and follow the rubbish appeal process, including the useless IAS appeal too. ( No Popla on this one. )

You are probably just going through the motions so expect rejections , then you are in it for the long haul 

Couple of questions:
1. Why no POPLA on this?
2. I'm struggling to make snese of your last sentence. Are you saying I'm just following the procedure but have next to 0 chance of getting it overturned?

1. POPLA is the second appeal stage for BPA AOS members. Excel isn't one of those, rather an IPC AOS member, for which the IAS provides the second appeal stage. 

2. In a nutshell yes. But by not capitulating and taking this as far as it will go following forum advice, you'll likely beat the scam, and there'll be no fingers in your pocket extracting you hard-earned, tax paid, honest income!