Broken Lift, 5th Floor flat, disabled

BarelySentientAI

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, the OP makes it look certain, but they often do.

A call handler saying "next week" isn't much of a guarantee, as they would probably have no idea about the actual repair process and just want to reassure someone that they'll get off the phone.

Well, any post on any forum could be different from reality. But, I have no reason to believe that the OP in this thread is. And, I would expect it to be reasonable for any repair process to result in the lift being quickly repaired and a long-lasting repair.

The lead time on variable speed drives for one brand of lift is 9 months.

How quickly do you think a repair can be done if the part takes 9 months to arrive?

babyblade41

I think sometimes it is expected that everything can be done "next day" sometimes this isn't possible. Many systems take time for parts to arrive.

The amount of times with my own personal house breakdowns I've had to wait for specific parts to arrive from over seas, I'm not sure why being a tenant this should be any different ..it happens . Lifts are notorious due to use and complex parts that must be safe for end users 

By all means raise concerns but sometimes things aren't a quick and easy fix

If OP is disabled then they would have a case worker who could assist in moving towards ground floor accommodation

RHemmings

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, the OP makes it look certain, but they often do.

A call handler saying "next week" isn't much of a guarantee, as they would probably have no idea about the actual repair process and just want to reassure someone that they'll get off the phone.

Well, any post on any forum could be different from reality. But, I have no reason to believe that the OP in this thread is. And, I would expect it to be reasonable for any repair process to result in the lift being quickly repaired and a long-lasting repair.

The lead time on variable speed drives for one brand of lift is 9 months.

How quickly do you think a repair can be done if the part takes 9 months to arrive?

I did some research on various types lift repairs online, and the estimates for various types of repairs that I saw were nothing like that at all. It takes less than 9 months to completely replace a lift. 9 months is simply not reasonable. 

BarelySentientAI

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, the OP makes it look certain, but they often do.

A call handler saying "next week" isn't much of a guarantee, as they would probably have no idea about the actual repair process and just want to reassure someone that they'll get off the phone.

Well, any post on any forum could be different from reality. But, I have no reason to believe that the OP in this thread is. And, I would expect it to be reasonable for any repair process to result in the lift being quickly repaired and a long-lasting repair.

The lead time on variable speed drives for one brand of lift is 9 months.

How quickly do you think a repair can be done if the part takes 9 months to arrive?

I did some research on various types lift repairs online, and the estimates for various types of repairs that I saw were nothing like that at all. It takes less than 9 months to completely replace a lift. 9 months is simply not reasonable. 

See DGG's response just before you started posting.

And if it was a failure in the power supply components, of which I have direct knowledge and expertise, well some of those have 24-30 month lead times at the moment.

It might be quicker to replace the lift with one of a different model, assuming the shaft and auxiliaries were compatible.  Not sure the residents would appreciate next year's service charge though.

RHemmings

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, the OP makes it look certain, but they often do.

A call handler saying "next week" isn't much of a guarantee, as they would probably have no idea about the actual repair process and just want to reassure someone that they'll get off the phone.

Well, any post on any forum could be different from reality. But, I have no reason to believe that the OP in this thread is. And, I would expect it to be reasonable for any repair process to result in the lift being quickly repaired and a long-lasting repair.

The lead time on variable speed drives for one brand of lift is 9 months.

How quickly do you think a repair can be done if the part takes 9 months to arrive?

I did some research on various types lift repairs online, and the estimates for various types of repairs that I saw were nothing like that at all. It takes less than 9 months to completely replace a lift. 9 months is simply not reasonable. 

See DGG's response just before you started posting.

And if it was a failure in the power supply components, of which I have direct knowledge and expertise, well some of those have 24-30 month lead times at the moment.

It might be quicker to replace the lift with one of a different model, assuming the shaft and auxiliaries were compatible.  Not sure the residents would appreciate next year's service charge though.

Yes, but if you read the OP, the situation is nothing like this. The non-working lift was reported broken on the 1st of May, and when chased the LL said that lift was fixed on the 10th and case closed. And, then a new case was opened. So, the process of repair has not progressed as it should. 

It would be good practice for whoever is handling the repair to make sure that it progresses as fast as possible, and also to keep the tenants informed as to the process. Neither appear to have happened here. 

It's possible to make up all sorts of scenarios to try and claim that the tenant is not being reasonable. But, it's clear that in this case, as described, those responsible for the lift are not doing their jobs properly. In incorrectly closing the job as 'fixed' when it wasn't, and in not keeping tenants properly informed. 

BarelySentientAI

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, the OP makes it look certain, but they often do.

A call handler saying "next week" isn't much of a guarantee, as they would probably have no idea about the actual repair process and just want to reassure someone that they'll get off the phone.

Well, any post on any forum could be different from reality. But, I have no reason to believe that the OP in this thread is. And, I would expect it to be reasonable for any repair process to result in the lift being quickly repaired and a long-lasting repair.

The lead time on variable speed drives for one brand of lift is 9 months.

How quickly do you think a repair can be done if the part takes 9 months to arrive?

I did some research on various types lift repairs online, and the estimates for various types of repairs that I saw were nothing like that at all. It takes less than 9 months to completely replace a lift. 9 months is simply not reasonable. 

See DGG's response just before you started posting.

And if it was a failure in the power supply components, of which I have direct knowledge and expertise, well some of those have 24-30 month lead times at the moment.

It might be quicker to replace the lift with one of a different model, assuming the shaft and auxiliaries were compatible.  Not sure the residents would appreciate next year's service charge though.

Yes, but if you read the OP, the situation is nothing like this. The non-working lift was reported broken on the 1st of May, and when chased the LL said that lift was fixed on the 10th and case closed. And, then a new case was opened. So, the process of repair has not progressed as it should. 

It would be good practice for whoever is handling the repair to make sure that it progresses as fast as possible, and also to keep the tenants informed as to the process. Neither appear to have happened here. 

It's possible to make up all sorts of scenarios to try and claim that the tenant is not being reasonable. But, it's clear that in this case, as described, those responsible for the lift are not doing their jobs properly. In incorrectly closing the job as 'fixed' when it wasn't, and in not keeping tenants properly informed. 

Completely - but that's much more likely to be a call handler just trying to keep people happy than an engineer or project manage actually involved with the repair giving a date.

Also quite plausible that someone turned up with the parts to fix the problem, but discovered that it was misdiagnosed or that there was another hidden issue (very common) and then had to plan/schedule another repair effort.

Why are you so certain that the problem should, beyond all doubt, certainly have been fixed on the first notified date without any exceptions?  That seems like an oddly adamant position to hold about a situation for which we have no evidence.

And I did read the OP - which said that it stopped working after power outages.  That actually does suggest damage to components in power conversion or possibly control systems.  The ones with the least spares and longest lead time.  Also the sort of issue that tends to hide other failures.

The fact that the lift is not fixed yet is not the problem and is quite plausible (almost to the point of probable) from an engineering perspective.  The communication is the issue here - yet the OP was talking about punishing them for the lack of technical fix.  Completely wrong emphasis.

RHemmings

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

RHemmings said:

BarelySentientAI said:

Yes, the OP makes it look certain, but they often do.

A call handler saying "next week" isn't much of a guarantee, as they would probably have no idea about the actual repair process and just want to reassure someone that they'll get off the phone.

Well, any post on any forum could be different from reality. But, I have no reason to believe that the OP in this thread is. And, I would expect it to be reasonable for any repair process to result in the lift being quickly repaired and a long-lasting repair.

The lead time on variable speed drives for one brand of lift is 9 months.

How quickly do you think a repair can be done if the part takes 9 months to arrive?

I did some research on various types lift repairs online, and the estimates for various types of repairs that I saw were nothing like that at all. It takes less than 9 months to completely replace a lift. 9 months is simply not reasonable. 

See DGG's response just before you started posting.

And if it was a failure in the power supply components, of which I have direct knowledge and expertise, well some of those have 24-30 month lead times at the moment.

It might be quicker to replace the lift with one of a different model, assuming the shaft and auxiliaries were compatible.  Not sure the residents would appreciate next year's service charge though.

Yes, but if you read the OP, the situation is nothing like this. The non-working lift was reported broken on the 1st of May, and when chased the LL said that lift was fixed on the 10th and case closed. And, then a new case was opened. So, the process of repair has not progressed as it should. 

It would be good practice for whoever is handling the repair to make sure that it progresses as fast as possible, and also to keep the tenants informed as to the process. Neither appear to have happened here. 

It's possible to make up all sorts of scenarios to try and claim that the tenant is not being reasonable. But, it's clear that in this case, as described, those responsible for the lift are not doing their jobs properly. In incorrectly closing the job as 'fixed' when it wasn't, and in not keeping tenants properly informed. 

Completely - but that's much more likely to be a call handler just trying to keep people happy than an engineer or project manage actually involved with the repair giving a date.

Also quite plausible that someone turned up with the parts to fix the problem, but discovered that it was misdiagnosed or that there was another hidden issue (very common) and then had to plan/schedule another repair effort.

Why are you so certain that the problem should, beyond all doubt, certainly have been fixed on the first notified date without any exceptions?  That seems like an oddly adamant position to hold about a situation for which we have no evidence.

And I did read the OP - which said that it stopped working after power outages.  That actually does suggest damage to components in power conversion or possibly control systems.  The ones with the least spares and longest lead time.  Also the sort of issue that tends to hide other failures.

The fact that the lift is not fixed yet is not the problem and is quite plausible (almost to the point of probable) from an engineering perspective.  The communication is the issue here - yet the OP was talking about punishing them for the lack of technical fix.  Completely wrong emphasis.

Companies are responsible for their call handlers, and any inaccurate, incomplete, or generally sloppy information they give to customers. No excuse there at all. 

I'm not saying that the problem should, beyond all doubt, certainly have been fixed on the first notified date. I'm point out that is what the company claimed to the OP. And, the evidence that we have is the company is not dealing with this complaint properly. E.g. giving incorrect information to the OP, and quite possibly sitting on their hands internally (to the organisation) having marked the lift 'fixed', until a further complaint was made. I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. 

It doesn't matter how the fault occurred if the OP has been given incorrect information, and if the company's story that they marked the lift as done and then stopped addressing the problem is true. And, if the tenants weren't kept informed. (In this case it appears that the OP was misinformed). 

What the company with the responsibility should have done immediately and without delay is send out competent engineers who can investigate the lift and fix it immediately if possible. Including a temporary fix if possible. Then, the people affected by the lift should be given information concerning the likely length of the outage, and then be kept informed as the process continues. It appears that absolutely none of that has happened. 

Your last paragraph appears to be restating my own case to me as if you believe it's an opposing view. 

Looking elsewhere, it appears that there are situations where a flat in a building without a working lift will be classified as unfit for human habitation. But, this is not clear as online references appear to mix other information in situations that don't quite match. E.g. 

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2023/01/a-lift-too-far-the-extent-of-the-section-11-obligation/

However, the position changed on 20 March 2019/20 March 2020 (for pre existing tenants). A broken down lift – at least for tenants affected by it – would be highly likely to amount to making the dwelling unfit for human habitation under s.9A and s.10 Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. (Cf Rendlesham Estates v Barr on ‘a lift that broke down with monotonous regularity’). As such it would be actionable by the tenants, regardless of whether there was an express lease clause, and regardless of whether their immediate landlord owned the building.

MEM62

@Tall_Masaai It sounds very much as if the accommodation is not well suited to your family's needs.  Have you considered moving?    

Skiddaw1

MEM62 said:

@Tall_Masaai It sounds very much as if the accommodation is not well suited to your family's needs.  Have you considered moving?    

I think that might be somewhat easier said than done in the current climate...

MEM62

Skiddaw1 said:

MEM62 said:

@Tall_Masaai It sounds very much as if the accommodation is not well suited to your family's needs.  Have you considered moving?    

I think that might be somewhat easier said than done in the current climate...

Depending on the OP's circumstances that may be the case but we do not know.  Either way we can be sure that they having difficulties where they are.