Our rights when Ryanair cancel flight 4 months in advance

Sam_Bam

My husband and two daughters are booked onto a Ryanair flight for Friday 6th Sept 2024.
We received an email two days ago to say that it had been cancelled due to commercial reasons
(I assume we've been victims of Ryanair pulling out of Bordeaux airport from autumn 2024).
Other flights are available on the same day with other carriers, but all are at least twice as expensive.

I therefore contacted Ryanair to ask for them to find us a 'comparable' flight.
Ryanair have offered us a Ryanair flight the day before, which isn't possible for us, so they've told us that there is nothing else they can offer, and advised me to get a refund.  I haven't agreed to this.

I told Ryanair that they need to find us a flight with another airline, but they have told me that there are no flights available with the other carriers that they deal with . There are at least 3 flights available on Friday 6th Sept with either British Airways or Easyjet, but Ryanair won't tell me if which other carriers they do deal with.

Who is correct, us or Ryanair?  I've read on the UK government website that we are entitled to
'be re-routed under comparable conditions which can include on a different airline or mode of transport'.
There are flights available from our departure airport, to our arrival airport on the day that we were supposed to travel, so surely these are 'comparable conditions'?, so are Ryanair obliged to offer us one of these flights?

TadleyBaggie

With 4 months notice, I don't think Ryanair have any obligation to reroute you as long as a full refund is offered.

eskbanker

Sam_Bam said:

Who is correct, us or Ryanair?  I've read on the UK government website that we are entitled to
'be re-routed under comparable conditions which can include on a different airline or mode of transport'.
There are flights available from our departure airport, to our arrival airport on the day that we were supposed to travel, so surely these are 'comparable conditions'?, so are Ryanair obliged to offer us one of these flights?

I disagree with the above posts and am with you that Ryanair are obliged to reroute you - the fact that it's well in advance releases them from any obligation to pay article 7 compensation but the article 8 provisions still apply, i.e. they need to offer you the choice between rerouting or refund, it's not up to them which it is.

Having said that, if anyone can point to anything in the legislation, or relevant case law, that negates the stated article 8 obligations if cancelling n days/weeks/months/years before departure, then I'll be happy to concede the point, but the regulations seem clear to me:

[article 5] In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:

(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8

[...]

Where reference is made to this Article [8], passengers shall be offered the choice between:

(a)- reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,

- a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

Likewise, the CAA view is clear, in paragraph 4.2 of Re-routing in accordance with Article 8 of Regulation (EU) 261/2004 (caa.co.uk)

However, in circumstances where there is no re-routing option under Article 8(1)(b) on its own services or, where applicable, on the services of its partner airlines, on the same day as the original flight and via the same route, the CAA’s view is that the airline should next seek to identify rerouting options on the services of alternative airlines on the same day as the original flight and via the same route. If such a re-routing option is available, affected passengers should be offered the choice of this option at the same time as they are offered the choice between the options set out in Article 8(1)(a), (b) and (c).

Sam_Bam

Thank you, eskbanker.  That's how I have interpreted it too. 
The Ryanair customer 'services' agent told me that it's not in Ryanair's policies to find me another flight on the same day with another airline, and only offered me another Ryanair flight on a different day, which I refused.
I told him that the situation is governed by the CAA regulations, not Ryanair policies.

Question is, how do I proceed from here?  The only thing I can do is re-contact them quoting the regulations.  I assume they try to fob people off in the first instance and hope that people will take a refund so that Ryanair don't have to pay another carrier.....
I'm looking to send the question to Simon Calder, travel journalist.  I think he has a live X (twitter) session Saturday and Sunday evenings at 17h30...?

eskbanker

As ever, it's one thing to have legal rights (which can't be overridden by company policies) but another altogether to enforce them, so if Ryanair aren't playing ball then you'll need to go through their complaints process and then on to Aviation ADR and maybe ultimately small claims, all of which will absorb significant time and energy....

bagand96

I agree with @eskbanker that the right to re-routing (Article 8) has no time restriction on it, that is only in respect of compensation (Article 7)

Sam_Bam said:

Thank you, eskbanker.  That's how I have interpreted it too. 
The Ryanair customer 'services' agent told me that it's not in Ryanair's policies to find me another flight on the same day with another airline, and only offered me another Ryanair flight on a different day, which I refused.
I told him that the situation is governed by the CAA regulations, not Ryanair policies.

Question is, how do I proceed from here?  The only thing I can do is re-contact them quoting the regulations.  I assume they try to fob people off in the first instance and hope that people will take a refund so that Ryanair don't have to pay another carrier.....
I'm looking to send the question to Simon Calder, travel journalist.  I think he has a live X (twitter) session Saturday and Sunday evenings at 17h30...?

Ryanair won't rebook you.  Arguably by the regulations they should be the ones doing the rebooking, but a lot of airlines will only offer their own flights or partner airlines and nothing else.  You may have to book the alternative flights yourself and then seek the difference in cost back from Ryanair.  May not be easy, but this is often the case.

I'd start by having another online chat with Ryanair reminding them of their obligations and getting them to state they won't rebook an alternative operator.  Save screenshots of that chat, and then go from there.

A couple of years ago easyJet cancelled a flight at short notice and only offered their own re-routing options.  These weren't suitable so I booked Jet2, claimed the cost from easyJet, they didn't argue.  As I say might not be as easy with Ryanair.

Phoenix72

The problem you have is that there is nothing you can do quickly to force Ryanair to comply so what happens if no resolution by the time you fly or the other flights sell out.

That assumes that Ryanair have that obligation which I'll leave to better minds than mine.

Sam_Bam

Thanks eskbanker, phoenix72 and bagand96. Am on the Ryanair chat. They're now offering me non direct flights taking 5+hours going via Milan or Cork (original route Bordeaux London Stansted 1 hour 35 mins).  I assume that the flights they're offering me aren't classed as 'comparable'? 

mdann52

Sam_Bam said:

Thanks eskbanker, phoenix72 and bagand96. Am on the Ryanair chat. They're now offering me non direct flights taking 5+hours going via Milan or Cork (original route Bordeaux London Stansted 1 hour 35 mins).  I assume that the flights they're offering me aren't classed as 'comparable'? 

Nope. CAA guidelines are at https://www.caa.co.uk/publication/download/18744 if you want to quote them back at them!

bagand96

Sam_Bam said:

Thanks eskbanker, phoenix72 and bagand96. Am on the Ryanair chat. They're now offering me non direct flights taking 5+hours going via Milan or Cork (original route Bordeaux London Stansted 1 hour 35 mins).  I assume that the flights they're offering me aren't classed as 'comparable'? 

Are they Ryanair flights? If so, Ryanair don't do connections, they'd be self connecting. Meaning that if your flight to Milan was late and you missed the connection you may well be stranded there!

What do they say when you ask for the alternative airline? 

Sam_Bam

Hello bagand96.

Yes, they are Ryanair flights - didn't think of the fact that they don't actually do connections - good point!
I have told Ryanair that there are both BA and Easyjet direct flights on the day that our original flight was, and Ryanair just tell me that they can't book other airline's flights on their system....

From the information I've looked at on the CAA website, and the advice above, I'm assuming that Ryanair are in the wrong.  I keep quoting the policies from the CAA website to them, but they simply tell me that they can't book other airlines using their website. 

They clearly want me to just ask for a refund, which is best for them as all of the other flights on that day are at least twice as expensive (I imagine that the other airlines raised their prices once they knew that Ryanair were cancelling their flights)!
I get the feeling that until one starts a legal process, Ryanair will just refuse to abide by the CAA rules. How do they keep getting away with it....?