Septic tank (shared) upgrade - what would you do?

youth_leader

Fantastic, grit your teeth and good luck.  I forgot to mention earlier that many years ago on here I'm sure I remember  a dispute between neighbours about the septic tank - and it seemed one of the neighbours was openly using his garden as a toilet! 

AJC211

Update;
Had a good face to face meeting with them, took a support buddy along with me so I wasn't on my own, and recorded the meeting (got consent from other attendees). 

We have all agreed to a cooling off period, and to a formal closure of existing system in 1y. 

Cottage 3 does have a solution for a system on their property for all of us to share...but they don't like it. They will have to choose between having a longer soil pipe than they like going across their garden (absolute no-no says Mr), having a tank in their lawn (absolute no-no says Mr and Mrs), or having to dig up a shrubbery (absolutely no-no says Mrs). I asked if there was merit in getting any more experts to come and see if there is a 'perfect' solution that lessens their compromise. At the start of the meeting they said no, they were fed up of quotes and options...at the end they said maybe. Perhaps they just need time to accept that they will have upheaval, it won't be ideal, and yes it would be simpler if I accepted the drainage on my land. 

I am likely going to pursue a 'levels' survey' for an individual system so the ball is rolling on that (if nothing else it will show that I'm not sitting on my laurels and might encourage the others to find other solutions). 

Pending legal advice and the levels survey, I am likely going to take this position regarding a shared system;
- I'm willing to compromise on the type of system. I don't really want a BioDisc, I've been advised against them by many, but at least the costs will be shared
- Easement must be agreed beforehand and in deeds (neighbours suggesting just updating the existing easement plan with a signed letter by all of us and only updating deeds when/if anyone sells, which sounds too informal to me, and my solicitor said the current easement isn't as watertight as ones written nowadays....I want a watertight one! They said if I involving solicitors then I'd have to pay the fees)
- I pay 1/4 installation and maintenance, not 1/3rd, to reflect the current sizing of the houses (other two have 5 beds, I have 3)

chrisw

I don't see why you'd have to pay their solicitor's fees. Your solicitor would draw up the agreement and send it to them. I would have thought it's up to them whether they want to respond personally or get their solicitors involved.

AJC211

Well, I tried to build bridges by explaining my reasoning for not wanting outflow drainage via my land, and to offer to help find other solutions. The owners have refused the last quote they got for a system on their land, because they don’t want a long soil pipe across their lawn, nor a tank under their lawn, nor to dig up their shrubbery. They are still saying the only solution is drainage via my land. Yes it’s practically simpler, and doesn’t cause upheaval to their garden. 

I’ve been told to expect a letter…

in the meantime I’ll pursue individual system with a levels survey and get the ball rolling.

it’s not that there isn’t a solution, it’s that the solution they insist upon, I don’t want, and the solution I prefer (status quo) they won’t entertain, because the upheaval falls unevenly on their shoulders (which is exactly why some people don’t want to buy properties with shared sewage systems…!).

AJC211

chrisw said:

I don't see why you'd have to pay their solicitor's fees. Your solicitor would draw up the agreement and send it to them. I would have thought it's up to them whether they want to respond personally or get their solicitors involved.

Yes, although my lawyer intimated that the wording of the 1975 easement isn’t as watertight as a current day one would be (hence our predicament), and said a new system would need a new easement, so ideally we’d all agree new easement terms before going ahead with a new shared system. I don’t feel very comfortable entering a new shared system based on a poorly worded 1975 easement, especially not with neighbours who have behaved in this way. I’d always agree terms first before committing to a shared system. It also means I’d be tied to the 1/3rd payment even though my property is 3 bedrooms, theirs are both 5. No room for negotiation.

propertyrental

You definitely need a new watertight easement. Surrender the existing one and replace

I'd bite the bullet and pay your solicitor to draw it up. He (not you) can then send it to the neighbours. He'll doubtless suggest they employ a solicitor to review it though there's really no need. It should be plain what it says and they could just review themselves and accept, suggest some amendment, (or refuse.....)

If they choose to employ a solicitor that's down to them.

ThisIsWeird

What are the respective sizes of the current ST and the new TP? Is having the ST excavated to make space for the TP not an option?

AJC211

ThisIsWeird said:

What are the respective sizes of the current ST and the new TP? Is having the ST excavated to make space for the TP not an option?

Current ST is far too small. Digging it out would mean we’d be without sewage for some time which isn’t practical for any of us (I have livestock, neighbours are elderly). The preferred site for the new 15-16 person STP is right next to the current tank, in the yard. However to site it here, the outflow will either need to use the old pipes with a pump, or dig new pipes around their oil tank and through their shrubbery, which they refuse to do. 

Alternatively the STP can be sited in their field, but they don’t like that either because they don’t want a soil pipe ‘that long’ crossing their garden. Installer says it’s fine. 

AJC211

propertyrental said:

You definitely need a new watertight easement. Surrender the existing one and replace

I'd bite the bullet and pay your solicitor to draw it up. He (not you) can then send it to the neighbours. He'll doubtless suggest they employ a solicitor to review it though there's really no need. It should be plain what it says and they could just review themselves and accept, suggest some amendment, (or refuse.....)

If they choose to employ a solicitor that's down to them.

If they agreed to a new easement, this is what I’d do. However so far they have refused to draw up a new easement, and anyway they’ve refused to consider the two options I’d agree to (because they involve siting the whole system on their land and therefor some digging of their garden). So sadly we’ve gone back to no mutually agreeable shared solution 😞

AJC211

I see it as a simple choice now:

- either get individual system, or

- join a shared system that I have no say in, that is a system I don’t want (been recommended against the Klargester Biodisc by several installers), without agreement for a new easement, with the outflow drainage via my land, paying 1/3rd costs for a system despite my property contributing only 1/4 of the system size needs (3 bedrooms vs 5 bedrooms), sharing with neighbours who have been very unpleasant towards me. 

It doesn’t feel like such a difficult choice when I put it like that!