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Earnings fall Under new aet changes and self employed

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Booboop123
Booboop123 Posts: 21 Forumite
Third Anniversary 10 Posts
edited 14 May 2024 at 10:35AM in Benefits & tax credits
Hi, just wondering what to expect 
i went over to uc in January , I'm employed 18 hours a week at minimum wage and im self employed also.  I'm not classed as gainfully employed as after expenses I'm short of the 35 hours. 
Even though I work 18 hours employed , I will fall under the aet 2 out of every 3 months(I'm paid monthly but 2x4 weeks and then a 5).  This I presume will send me into the Intensive work group .
seems unfair as I have regular self employed as well.  
So seems to me an unfair system 

Comments

  • peteuk
    peteuk Posts: 1,990 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Becarefull of having just a rant and not asking a question, as it breaks forum rules.

    So basically you work 18 hours, have a self employment piece that doesn't clear AET (so you earn less that £892 a month) Youve been judged to not gainfully self employed…thats the rules.  Dont like them or disagree take them up with your MP.
    Proud to have dealt with our debts
    Starting debt 2005 £65.7K.
    Current debt ZERO.
    DEBT FREE
  • Spoonie_Turtle
    Spoonie_Turtle Posts: 10,326 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper
    If you were classed as gainfully self-employed you'd have the Minimum Income Floor applied after 12months instead, which would likely be far worse than not clearing the AET.  You might even get a reasonable work coach who can see your situation - two income streams - and makes sure your commitments reflect it.

    Unfortunately the only people who can change the rules are those who make the rules, so you'd have to take it up with your MP and/or join any relevant charity campaigns.

    (For peteuk's info as you mention self-employment not clearing the AET, S-E earnings don't count towards the AET for whatever reason - presumably they see the MIF as the incentive to make sure earnings are high enough, but it's evidently a frustrating anomaly for people 'earning enough' overall just not all via one or the other.)
  • peteuk
    peteuk Posts: 1,990 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    If you were classed as gainfully self-employed you'd have the Minimum Income Floor applied after 12months instead, which would likely be far worse than not clearing the AET.  You might even get a reasonable work coach who can see your situation - two income streams - and makes sure your commitments reflect it.

    Unfortunately the only people who can change the rules are those who make the rules, so you'd have to take it up with your MP and/or join any relevant charity campaigns.

    (For peteuk's info as you mention self-employment not clearing the AET, S-E earnings don't count towards the AET for whatever reason - presumably they see the MIF as the incentive to make sure earnings are high enough, but it's evidently a frustrating anomaly for people 'earning enough' overall just not all via one or the other.)
    Thanks Spoonie Turtle - was going off the title, however my point is clear.  No question just a rant!  
    Proud to have dealt with our debts
    Starting debt 2005 £65.7K.
    Current debt ZERO.
    DEBT FREE
  • huckster
    huckster Posts: 5,290 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Well you can at any time report change of circumstances under work and earnings stating you are employed and self employed.  This will cause a verify self employment action on the Job Centres side of your claim.  And send a message to Work Coach that you would like to attend a Gateway Intervention appointment to see if you are now gainfully self-employed.

    But if you do this, don't report the change until just after a payment statement has been issued. If you do it before a payment statement is issued, this may cause payment to be delayed.

    As has been pointed out, if you do a mixture of employed and self-employed, if you are found gainfully self-employed, if you don't have health or caring barriers, then a minimum income floor (MIF) based on 35 hours per week national minimum wage would be applied after 12 months. And they won't deduct the employed hours off the MIF to reduce the MIF.

    If the current expense levels mean that the self-employed work is not able to provide you with an amount to live on, then you need to come up with a worked out business plan with calculations that show the level of income you need to generate.   In most local authority areas the Council websites will have details of organisations that can help with self-employment business advice. And these are mostly free services which offer excellent advice as well as opportunities to network. Armed with a business plan you have come up, you can then have discussions with the advice organsiations about marketing etc.  
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
  • Booboop123
    Booboop123 Posts: 21 Forumite
    Third Anniversary 10 Posts
    huckster said:
    Well you can at any time report change of circumstances under work and earnings stating you are employed and self employed.  This will cause a verify self employment action on the Job Centres side of your claim.  And send a message to Work Coach that you would like to attend a Gateway Intervention appointment to see if you are now gainfully self-employed.

    But if you do this, don't report the change until just after a payment statement has been issued. If you do it before a payment statement is issued, this may cause payment to be delayed.

    As has been pointed out, if you do a mixture of employed and self-employed, if you are found gainfully self-employed, if you don't have health or caring barriers, then a minimum income floor (MIF) based on 35 hours per week national minimum wage would be applied after 12 months. And they won't deduct the employed hours off the MIF to reduce the MIF.

    If the current expense levels mean that the self-employed work is not able to provide you with an amount to live on, then you need to come up with a worked out business plan with calculations that show the level of income you need to generate.   In most local authority areas the Council websites will have details of organisations that can help with self-employment business advice. And these are mostly free services which offer excellent advice as well as opportunities to network. Armed with a business plan you have come up, you can then have discussions with the advice organsiations about marketing etc.  
    thanks, they already know I'm employed and self employed as I've already had a meeting to see if I'm gainfully employed. 
    Guess I'm better off where I am at the moment if they don't take my employed hours into consideration for the mif then as I'd need to work around 60 hours a week(including my 18 hours employed) to meet the 35 hours plus I wouldn't be entitled to any uc then anyway.
  • Yamor
    Yamor Posts: 644 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    1. Your employed earnings will count towards the MIF, if you are found to be gainfully self-employed and the MIF is applied to you.

    2. Legally, in your situation, you do meet the AET, as they are supposed to average your earnings over the 3-month cycle. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get them to do this in practice.
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